1 Peter 1:5-7

You are being protected by God's power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. You rejoice in this, though now for a short time you have had to struggle in various trials so that the genuineness of your faith--more valuable than gold, which perishes though refined by fire-- may result in praise, glory, and honor at the
at the revelatiom of Jesus Chriat.

1 Peter 4:1-2

Therefore, since Christ suffered In the flesh, equip yourselves also with the same resolve-- because the one who suffered In the Flesh has finished with sin-- in order to live the remaining time in the flesh, no longer for human desires, but for God's will.

James 1:2-4

Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. But endurance must do its complete work, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.

Romabs 5:1-5

Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have also obtained access through him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also rejoice in our afflictions because we know that affliction produces endurance, endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope. This hope will not disappoint us because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
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If God uses persecution to refine our faith in Christ?. If God uses persecution to purify our faith in Christ. If God uses persecution to mature our faith in Christ. If God uses persecution to develop the character of Christ within us. If we are to rejoice in our afflictions and trials because God is molding the character of Christ within us.

Then what is wrong in asking God to send persecution that are fairh will be purified, refined, and our character be perfected as unto Christ?

Because God does not HAVE to sanctify us through persecution. He can and will, but it is not a 100% requirement.

Some of the great saints and preachers on this website have not been through great persecution.

I think you are confusing God's ability to purify us through persecution vs. a requirement that we be purified through persecution.

I see no example in scripture where a person seeks out persecution for the PURPOSE of being persecuted.

Think of the apostles. They did things that they knew would get them in trouble, but they didn't go into it **in order** to be persecuted. They did it because they were simply doing what God told them to do.

Here's an example. I should not go preach hellfire and brimstone on a busy street corner so that I will be persecuted and therefore have a badge of honor that I can post on Facebook. I should only preach hell fire and brimstone on a busy street corner if God tells me to, and woe to me if I do not obey.

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Todd

Bear,

Why pray for God to send it to you, when you can go get some anytime you want? And you can get some persecution in America, right now. Just live godly (all those who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution). You can embrace the cross and deprive your flesh (lusts), now if you want to be refined by the Holy Spirit and suffer in the flesh. Anyone who embraces the cross will suffer in the flesh. You don't have to have your eyes poked out to fulfill that scripture.

Persecuted people don't pray for it or wish for it because they can't bring themselves to obey God and so they ask God for a little help in making them obey Him.

It is the Spirit that sanctifies, not physical pain and deprivation. Pain and deprivation usually test our hearts (the results are unpredictable), but do not sanctify our hearts.

Only the Spirit can sanctify our hearts and He does not require persecution as a tool.

2 Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT and belief of the truth:

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I have never heard people praying for sickness, pain, poverty, loneliness, hatred against them, etc, etc.

I see totally what TMK is saying. Makes perfect common sense.

However/also, on the other thread of the Chinese underground churches praying for persecution (who also have in the past asked us in the West NOT to pray the persecution is taken away but that they are faithful in it & God is glorified & grows the church to thrive through it) for America, I also have NO problem & understand such a potential "prophetic burden" in prayer. When you see DECADES of talk about revival in the West but the same old same old, praying for the Lord to use "whatever it takes" so that the lost are awakened to reality from their spiritual drunken stupor (judgement, calamities, whatever) & also whatever it takes to awaken the church en made to WAKE UP (I can hear Ian Paisley crying out "wake up you sleepy Christians" in my head 😊) be it persecution, trials, etc. then I don't see that as inherently "wrong" or "morbid" either. Question is, we're such prayers birthed in the spirit of prophecy from the thron room & actually the heart of the Father, or the mind of man. The apostles didn't have to/need to ever pray such a thing. Persecution was everywhere they went. So I think that observation/differentiation should at least be noted before just "quoting specific examples in scripture". Just like how the apostles never specifically spoke up about abortion (it was big in Baal worship LONG BEFORE their day & is now, but not so much during the apostolic era), why they never speak on "Gay Marriage" (such an oxymoron never existed until recently), etc.

QUOTE: Then what is wrong in asking God to send persecution that are faith will be purified, refined, and our character be perfected as unto Christ?

1Ti 2:1
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
1Ti 2:2for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
1Ti 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,


There is more to your question but basically what you are asking is not at all scriptural, it also is the complete opposite of the above precept which "is " the will of God says.

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D.Miller

It is true that the early church was persecuted. No doubt about it, and I am sure that in part made the early church what it was.

I think a prayer for a shaking or a waking of the sleeping church in America is certainly called for.

I am reminded of the very first part of "The Revival Hymn"(haven't listened to that in a while- need to break it out) "wake up!! You're sleepy Christians! Awake thou that sleepeth, arise from the dead! Christ will give you life!"

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Todd

I think you are right on . I think we seem to gloss over scripture like if they persecute you in this palce (City) fee to another etc...we have been called to peace, even though our message bears a sword and often times warnings.

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D.Miller

Yes, and we even know the "sword" is a metaphor for truth, which divides (cuts asunder) people. In other words, divine truth revealed, causes people to make a decision where they stand. With Jesus or not with Him (which is really against him).

But yeah, Jesus said when persecution comes, flee. So, He is not in agreement with us praying for persecution to come upon our brethren. What we should want people to know is how powerful the Spirit is in changing us if we yield to Him.

I guess everyone has given up on the Spirit changing people in America so now they are saying, "just bring some good old persecution on them."

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