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 The Pretrib Rapture???

Is this pretrib rapture scriptural? Can the idea of a pre-trib rapture before the 7 year tribulation be supported out of the New Testament?

Not trying to be argumentative here. But I thought since we were discussing the mark of the beast may be we might get some discussion to the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture.

There are many Bible teachers of prophecy that are really adamant that this is a cardinal doctrine that one must believe in. Some have even questioned whether one is saved or not if they do not hold to the pre-tribulation rapture.

A noted Bible teacher that I kisten to out of Hawaii has said that this is an attack on the doctrine of imminenece. I'm supposing he means the imminent return of Jesus.

Personally I do not hold to the view of a pre-trip rapture of the church before the 7 year tribulation. For the simple fact I don't see it taught in the New Testament.

But for those in the forum that may hold to such a position. I would love to see the scriptures and go back and reevaluate my position. Personally I like the idea of being taken out of here before the real persecution starts. But then that is my fleshly side speaking.

My understanding is that many of our persecuted brethren in restricted nations do not hold to this pretrib view. They would even argue that they are in the tribulation. Particularly those in North Korea. No doubt they would probably regard the present ruler of North Korea as their Antichrist.

Anyway would like to hear from the forum. Is the pre-trib rapture taught in the New Testament?

 2016/8/23 12:49

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3417
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: The Pretrib Rapture???

My mere opinion is that it is not taught in the new Testament. I believe Jesus in the book of Matthew taught clearly that He will not return until AFTER the tribulation, great or otherwise!!

God bless


 2016/8/23 13:28Profile

Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632

 Re: The Pretrib Rapture???

Bear, you know my heart and mind on it. We've talked about it off the forum albeit briefly. I do not believe the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture. I do believe the Bible teaches a post-trib "harpazo"/rapture after the end of the 70th week of Daniel (still future) at the same time of the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

I also respectfully believe that the pre-trib school of thought is a very late innovation by well-meaning believers and that while well-intended it is pernicious in its effect. I am now -- and have been for a couple of months now -- actively pursuing personal study on the matter as I am convinced that the Spirit of the Lord has instructed me to do so. It is a matter of pastoral urgency for the whole body in the Western world, particularly America.

It is my deeply held conviction that pre-trib rapture teaching is perhaps one of the grossest forms of error that we encounter. I am not optimistic that sound teaching of the post-trib doctrine and even prayer that would otherwise avail much will actually make much difference in the sweep of pre-trib belief in this nation because the doctrine perfectly fits the American/capitalist/materialist narrative and is thereby part of the deception of the last days. If there's anything 240 years has taught us here is that we don't easily give up anything that serves ourselves.


 2016/8/23 13:45Profile



Haven't you red my version of the Bible, the RTNV? (Replacement Theological Nonsense Version)
jesus already returned in 70 AD and we were all raptured by then. Even those of us who were not born yet. So your question is redundant. Right now we are in the invisible kingdom age with jesus reigning invisibly on his
invisible throne from the invisible Jerusalem having been invisibly raptured ..... er strike that part about Jerusalem please.

 2016/8/23 14:00

Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301

 Re: The Pretrib Rapture???

There is a brother with great teaching on this topic (he is not "pre-trib") named Joe Schimmel. I recommend his video "Left Behind or Led Astray: Examining the Origins of the Secret Pre-Tribulation Theory."

I was a "pre-tribber" before hearing Joe Schimmel teach on the subject and watching the video...I'm not anymore.

~ Forrest

 2016/8/23 14:20Profile

 Church of Rome: Origination of Pre-Trib Rapture

And here is a complete work on the origination of the Pre-Trib Rapture. (goes back to yes, guess who, the RCC) Only 3.99. Read it and decide for yourself.

The Rapture of the Saints Paperback – 1970
by Rev. Duncan McDougall

If you would like a pdf, you can get it here:

One of Scotland's well-known Gaelic scholars, the Reverend Duncan McDougall graduated at
Edinburgh University in Latin, Greek, Hebrew and Gaelic, taking Gaelic medals, Blackie Prize and MacPherson Scholarship (twice). After leaving college he was Examiner in Hebrew for eleven years to the Free Church College, Edinburg, in which he had taken his theological course. Having been posted to Holland in the First World War, Mr. McDougall had acquired a working knowledge of Dutch, and in expectation of a mission appointment in South America, which, however, did not materialize, he set himself to acquire a working knowledge of Spanish.

He was therefore a linguist of very considerable repute. A devout Christian, Mr. McDougall was ordained to the Ministry of the Free Church of Scotland, a denomination which has long been known for its firm adherence to the teaching of the Holy Scriptures and its repudiation of modernistic and higher critical views. For six years he was Lecturer in Christian Evidences to the Vancouver Bible School, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Finally returning to Scotland, he was appointed Minister of the Free Church in Dundoon, a post which he held until his retirement.

Many professed Bible Teachers have been busy in Bible studies, conventions, revivals,
religious papers, leaflets, and books, telling with an air of authority (which amount almost to a claim to Divine inspiration), all about the "secret rapture" of the saints and what is to take place on this earth after they are gone. According to their theory the Lord is to come SECRETLY for His saints: they are to be caught up (raptured) to meet Him in the air without the world knowing that anything is happening. All who are unprepared are to be left on earth in an unsaved state, then an individual known as the "Antichrist' is to make his appearance, to assume power as a world Dictator, to revive the old Roman Empire as a ten-kingdomed confederacy, and to rule over it, to make a covenant with the Jews to allow them to set up again their temple worship in Jerusalem, and at the end of three-and-a-half years, to break the covenant and persecute them. After seven years Christ is to come back with His saints to destroy the Anti-Christ and set up His reign of a thousand years on this earth. All these things are described in as much detail as if they were actually taught in the Bible, and even some good men have got the impression that the Bible does actually contain them.

It will come as a shock to many good people that not only is this teaching not in the Bible, but that it was originated by the Bible's worst enemies. If Christians would only study God's Word, coming to the Bible with an open mind instead of coming with their heads filled with the teachings of human and fallible men whom they treat as if inspired, they would not be so readily 'carried away with [this] wind of doctrine'. If they would accept the teaching of Christ that "a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit," or the warning given to Daniel that "none of the wicked shall understand," they would know better than to expect to get a clean bird out of a foul nest.

The pity is that so many choose to remain ignorant of the nest out of which the bird has come, and so, "professing themselves to be wise," they proclaim their ignorance as it were on the house-tops. To these "blind leaders of the blind," ignorance is a Pearl of Great Price, and to offer them any enlightenment on historical facts is an attempt to rob them of their precious jewel. If any of them have ever read any of the writings of the Reformers on the subject of Prophecy, they seldom by the slightest allusion betray the fact. Being neither willing to admit, nor able to refute, the wisdom of all these mighty Spirit-taught men of God, our modem Bible Teachers studiously ignore them, and speak as if they themselves were the people, and wisdom had been born with them. One would never guess from the writings of these "Bible Teachers" that any expositor existed earlier than J. N. Darby. Naturally to tell them the truth is to become their enemy.

 2016/8/23 14:36

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3305

 Re: Church of Rome: Origination of Pre-Trib Rapture

I guess I'll ask the simple question, Post-Trib or Pre-Trib, does it really matter if ultimately we have accepted Christ into our lives and headed to Heaven? Personally speaking, the way the world is today, I sometimes wonder if we're in the Tribulation right now.


 2016/8/23 14:46Profile

Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632


Bill, I have thought the same possibility...that maybe Daniel's 70th Week is underway and we don't realize it. I won't bog the thread with the particulars of why that feeling is most likely wrong but I cannot escape the sense that we are no longer simply approaching it.


 2016/8/23 14:53Profile

Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1436
Dothan, Alabama


With the new Russian-Turkey-Iran coalition being formed we're living and seeing Ezekiel 38 happening....


 2016/8/23 14:58Profile



It doesn't matter unless it moves you away from Christ as it did to the Chinese church during the Mao Tse Tung, "Purge".

 2016/8/23 15:17

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