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by docs on 2016/7/12 10:08:52

/"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:



That's good enough for me./

If that means no study is really necessary or useful just give me the Spirit then I see it as a unbalanced statement.

Ahhh, but you know I study.

Let me balance that statement which just proves we cannot isolate single scriptures to build our theologies, which many do, all the time.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim 2:15)

 2016/7/12 13:44

 Re: To Be Clear

Brethren I want to be clear on one thing. I do not despise the scriptures as I recognize that they are needed to maintain a living and vital relationship to Jesus Christ. Despite the thinking of some in this forum the scriptures are an important part of my life along with prayer. I believe my posts in both my devotional thread on the persecuted church as well as other threads I have opened up should demonstrate this.

During the early days of the Jesus movement that I was part of I was trained by both campus Crusade and The Navigators to have a love for scriptures and the power that they bring to the Holy Spirit to change one's life.

So please let me be specific I do not despise the scriptures. Let me say again I do not despise the scriptures. Again let me say I do not despise the scriptures.

For those who think otherwise and this for him I cannot be any clearer above than what I have been saying dot....... I do not despise the scriptures.

I have read through the New Testament hundreds of times being legally blind I spend several hundred hours listening to the audio Bible even in my sleep. So again. Please let me be specific. I do not despise the scriptures.

Where I at odds with many in this forum is that I believe that the Holy Spirit can speak audibly His Word into our heart and mind. I believe the Holy Spirit can breathe his word into our soul. I believe the scriptures are living as Jesus said that His Words are Spirit and truth.

I used to be in a movement known as Calvinism. I was probably more Calvinistic than many in this forum. I was taught to defend TULIP with my dying breath. I was taught that it was more important to have a right theological Library then to have the fruit of the Spirit.

The funny thing about Calvinists that they claim to be word centered. They claim to be about the scriptures. Yet in my experience with Calvin is the scriptures were secondary to theology. Far better to read John Owen or Calvin then to read the New Testament. In my experience is with Calvinism I never read once through the New Testament.

It was only after leaving Calvinism. And it was only after I was baptized in the Holy Spirit that I've developed a love for the Word of God.

The Calvinists accuse us of being weak in the scripture. There are those in the Forum, perhaps of Calvinist suasion, who accused us of emphasizing Spirit experiences and not the Word. Yet I know many tongue-talking baptized in the Holy Spirit Pentecostal believers who are very strong in the word. And I dare say it read it more than my Calvinistic brethren.

This post is getting rather lengthy so I will start another post to flesh out my thoughts here.

 2016/7/12 14:02

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219


You study you say. Well ha, I thought you were a heretic two times over! My mistake, I must have been hearing rumors.

David Winter

 2016/7/12 14:24Profile


... Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth...2 Timothy 2:15

I think the New American Standard gives a more accurate thought in the above verse. I do not think 2nd Timothy 2:15 is saying we need to get our Bibles and critical commentaries out to extrapolate theological doctrine.

I believe the emphasis is more on having our New Testaments or Bibles out, being before the Holy Spirit asking how He would reveal Jesus Christ to us. And then how we would follow Him.

Consider 2 Timothy 3:14-17,

... You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reprove, for correction, or training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

In the above verses Paul is telling Timothy that the word of God is sufficient to instruct Him in faith in Jesus Christ and living out that faith. He is also telling him that the scriptures are sufficient for every good work in Christ. That would be ministry.

Noticed Paul is not telling Timothy to get critical commentary for exegetical work to understand the word of God. But simply to let the word of God speak into His heart and mind. How to do this through the power of the Holy Spirit instructing him and teaching him.

Brothers and sisters if we believe Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Then the same Jesus that spoken to the heart and mind of Timothy through the scriptures can speak into our heart and mind through the scriptures. We do not need commentaries or exegetical works to open up the word of God. All we need is the Spirit of God himself since He is the author of scripture.

I close with this quotation by John Bunyan. Some have said he was a theolohian. Alright I will not debate that. But it was set up Bunyan that the only library he ever had was his Bible.

... Read and read again, and do not despair of help to understand the will and mind of God though you think they are locked up from you. Neither trouble your heads you have not commentaries are expositions. Pray and read and read and pray for a little from God is better than a whole lot from men...

Spurgeon supposedly said that if you cut Bunyan he would not believe blood but bleed scripture. I believe the quote accurateky articulates Bunyon's experience with the Word of God. Notice he would not bleed blood. And he certainly would not bleed theology. But he would bleed the Living Word of God himself.

Indeed a little from God is better than a whole lot from them. Or I would say a little from God is better than a whole lot from theologians.

Simply my thoughts.

 2016/7/12 14:34


Ephesians 4:11-16King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 2016/7/12 16:10


docs on 2016/7/12 14:24:05

You study you say. Well ha, I thought you were a heretic two times over! My mistake, I must have been hearing rumors.

I enjoy the wonderful company of Jesus, who was also accused of being a heretic.

 2016/7/12 16:32


Blain, what is your definition of theology?

 2016/7/12 17:17

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37633
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


The Calvinists accuse us of being weak in the scripture. There are those in the Forum, perhaps of Calvinist suasion, who accused us of emphasizing Spirit experiences and not the Word. Yet I know many tongue-talking baptized in the Holy Spirit Pentecostal believers who are very strong in the word. And I dare say it read it more than my Calvinistic brethren.

To make it clear SermonIndex does not make this distinction, we are glad to call brothers those would call themselves calvinists or pentecostals. It is not even what theology we have but are we in right relation to the Saviour? Does He know us and is His spirit in us?

2 Corinthians 13:5 New International Version (NIV)

5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/7/13 1:03Profile

 Re: Pertinent quote from Richard Wurmbrand

The Bible is a wonderful book. It is the truth about the Truth. It is not the Truth. A sermon taken from the Bible can be a wonderful thing to hear. It is the truth about the truth about the truth. But it is not the truth. There have been many books written about the things contained in the Bible. I have written some myself. They can be quite wonderful to read. They are the truth about the truth about truth about the Truth. But they are NOT the Truth. Only Jesus Christ is the Truth. Sometimes the Truth can be drowned in a multitude of words.

 2016/7/16 19:28

 Definition of Theology

Everyone engages in theology. Everyone has a theology. The word "theology" is derived from two Greek words, theos meaning "God," and logos meaning "word" with extended meanings of "reasoning" or "logic." Theology refers to "reasoning about God." Everyone has some "reasoning about God," including the atheist who rejects the "god" he has reasoned about.

Christians should not be afraid of theology or have an aversion towards theology. Theology is not necessarily overly intellectual or "unspiritual." Granted, there has been much theology that has been nothing more than academic exercises in "God-talk," but this does not negate the legitimacy of genuine theological consideration which seeks Biblical documentation and spiritual understanding.

In analyzing the theological systems that predominate today, it is important that we remain as objective as possible. We do not want to misrepresent what others believe. We do not want to set up "straw men," which any wind-bag could blow down. We do not want to engage in ballistic brick-throwing and unloving polemics against Christian peoples who hold differing theological opinions.

Genuine and sincere Bible-believing Christians subscribe to varying theological systems. Never do we want to "write someone off" and deny that they are our Christian brother or sister because they organize their "belief-system" differently that we do, provided they profess that Jesus is the Christ and have received Him by faith. Christian unity is not uniformity of thought or ideology. We seek a unity of love despite diversity of opinion, understanding, interpretation or theological explanation. Our unity is in Christ, not in theological constructions.

In this study we will be considering the two predominant theological systems in conservative Christian theology today (Covenant theology and Dispensational theology), and then proposing another theological interpretation (Christocentric theology), that avoids some of the problems presented by the other two. This will necessarily involve some critique of the predominant theological systems and their presuppositions. Questions will be asked about their premises, some of which beg for an answer. We seek not to destroy these theological systems, but to honestly inquire, question and confront. In that these theological systems have innumerable variations among their proponents with subtle nuances of differing interpretation, we must attempt to analyze the over-all system and simplify the issues involved without being so simplistic as to misrepresent. Not an easy task!

This is one of those really good papers about Christocentric theology that you want to file somewhere, handy.

 2016/7/16 21:30

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