Obviously frank we aren't in agreement ,,but that's ok .....
In agreement with the sentence I posted from Philip. It is to the point and without ambiguity..........bro Frank
Frank previously wrote : "Spurgeon, from his sermon "Preaching Christ Crucified"....In the verse preceding our text, Paul writes, “Jews demand miraculous signs.” They said, “Moses performed miracles; let us see miracles performed, and then we will believe,” forgetting that all the miracles that Moses did were completely eclipsed by those which Jesus did while he was on the earth as the God-man. Then there were certain Judaizing teachers who, in order to win the Jews, preached circumcision, exalted the Passover, and endeavored to prove that Judaism might still exist side by side with Christianity, and that the old rites might still be practiced by the followers of Christ. So Paul, who was “all things to all men so that by all possible means he might save some,” put his foot down, and said, in effect, “Whatever others may do, we preach Christ crucified; we dare not, we cannot, and we will not alter the great subject matter of our preaching, Jesus Christ, and him crucified."That is a very good word from Spurgeon. But I have a difficult time believing that he is asserting what you think he is, for the simple reasons that :A : other things that he said pertaining to the subjectB : He was a strong advocate of limited atonement.
It is only a pure and perfect law that the Holy Spirit can use in order to show to us our depravity and sinfulness. Lower the law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt. This is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain, for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion. You have also taken away from the law its power to shut us up to the faith of Christ. What is the law of God for? For us to keep in order to be saved by it? Not at all. It is sent in order to show us that we cannot be saved by works, and to shut us up to be saved by grace; but if you make out that the law is altered so that a man can keep it, you have left him his old legal hope, and he is sure to cling to it. You need a perfect law that shuts man right up to hopelessness apart from Jesus, puts him into an iron cage and locks him up, and offers him no escape but by faith in Jesus; then he begins to cry, "Lord, save me by grace, for I perceive that I cannot be saved by my own works." This is how Paul describes it to the Galatians: "The Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary when you have set aside the law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ. No, it must stand, and stand in all its terrors, to drive men away from self-righteousness and constrain them to fly to Christ. They will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy law; therefore the law serves a most necessary and blessed purpose, and it must not be removed from its place.
Hi PP, I think therin lies the problems on calling upon the great names of the past in order to back up what we believe doctrinally. I completely reject limited atonement but it does not take away from the fact that i consider Spurgeon to be a wonderful man of God and a wonderful preacher of the Word, does that make sense? Would you like me to post the whole sermon that I took the quote from? I would be happy to do that PP.Bottom lie for me, I think Whitfield and Wesley and Spurgeon and Tozer and A.B.Simpson and others were all wonderful men of God and He used them mightily. Now we know they cannot all have been right in regard to certain " doctrines of men,' but we can respect them and learn from their walks..............bro Frank
The discussion here has really blessed me and I love all the iron sharpening iron :-)I've had to reassess my thinking and make sure I get to the crux of the matter when giving my testimony. And thank you Frank and Blaine for giving yours. It's amazing how they are so different but the same. To quote brother Frank: "Calvary, the power to heal. Calvary, the power to forgive. Calvary, the power to cleanse. Calvary, where the Lord humiliated the enemy.It was Calvary before and it was Calvary afterward and it is Calvary forever.The Son of God triumphing over hell and death and sin. This is why Calvary lies at the very heart of who we are, the beating heart of every Christian is the finished work of Calvary alive in them. Out of death sprung life and that more abundantly."This is the crux,of all matter: the finished work on the cross by Jesus Christ. Hallelujah I thank our Lord for you all for reviving me!!!Sis L
Hi FrankRE: ///I think therin lies the problems on calling upon the great names of the past in order to back up what we believe doctrinally. I completely reject limited atonement but it does not take away from the fact that i consider Spurgeon to be a wonderful man of God and a wonderful preacher of the Word, does that make sense? ///I am not saing that I am in agreement with Spurgeon on limited atonement, (I never came to a strong conclusion one way or the other on the subject of limited v unlimited ) I only pointed out that he strongly held to limited atonement : because you referenced him and by doing so an allusion was given that he held to the position that you are advocating. I would not see how someone such as Spurgeon who held to limited atonement : could be in agreement with your interputation of the scriptures, that you are useing to make your point. that is all that I was pointing out. RE: ///Would you like me to post the whole sermon that I took the quote from? I would be happy to do that PP.///A link would be sufficiant, what was written was excellant as is the majority of Spurgeons works, but lets becareful as not to read into his writings more than he intended, obviously his view is understood by harmonizing all of his writings.RE: /// Bottom lie for me, I think Whitfield and Wesley and Spurgeon and Tozer and A.B.Simpson and others were all wonderful men of God and He used them mightily. Now we know they cannot all have been right in regard to certain " doctrines of men,' but we can respect them and learn from their walks..............bro Frank ///This is true, but I am not aware of any of the above that taught what you are advocating. With the exception of Simpson,(more research needed) quotes have been provided to prove that all the above mentioned where of the same understanding as myself on the subject. Which can best be summed up by the last post of Spurgeons that I posted
The law still puts us to death. We must all die to self as Jesus example. Yet we live because of Him.
_________________James R Barnes
PP, lets just disagree on the great men of the past and what they thought. We each have our thoughts and that is good enough for me. Phillip's quote early on is where I am and obviously I believe it and I believe all the great men believed it.............""If Christ alone is not enough, then we make God a liar.."Do you agree in that one line PP? If you do, great, if you dont then we shall agree to disagree...........bro Frank
Glad you were blessed sister Leslie as was I with your testimony. I love testimonies because they are open and honest and transparent and it shows our own actual understanding of Scriptures and how they have worked out in our own lives. To many times folks just hide behind quotes of what other men believed rather than just tell us how what they believe played out in their own lives. Testimonies humanize us and bring us closer together, theology and doctrine and arguing about them and bringing in our surrogates to prove our own points tends to puff up and separate us...............bro Frank