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Discussion Forum : General Topics : It is Christ crucified and not the law, that convicts the hearts of men.

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"If someone is already well aware that they have been biten by a venomouse snake and are already seeking and open to the antidote, than it would be unnecessary to point out there condition them."

PP, I have never met anyone who did not know they were sinners, apart from maybe sociopaths. Whether a tribal member from deep in the jungle or someone from Victorian England, they all knew they were sinners and why? They have a conscience and every man who comes into the world has been touched by the light of Jesus according to the Word.

According to Romans " all men," suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The word suppress is to hold down. The word all in the Greek means............all :) Now do you know what that means? There is not a single actual athiest in the world, only people who call themselves that for let the word of God be true and all men be liars. When a man says he is an atheist he is lying to you and to himself for his conscience tells him otherwise and when he comes before God that mans shall not plead ignorance. Ignorance is no defense in human law and it shall be no defense before the throne otherwise better for men to be left in their ignorance.................bro Frank

 2016/6/3 17:10


Amen sister Leslie,amen, what a wonderful testimony. When you realized that your sins had nailed Jesus to the Cross then your heart was pierced and you were saved and you wept tears of repentance.

I had a long road to salvation but after a mighty struggle I went forward at a church and gave my life to Jesus. Yet, I did not feel the lessening of the load that others have testified to. In fact, quote the opposite. My mind was in-undated by filth and madness. For two weeks this came against me unto the point of insanity. The third Sunday after going to this church my mind was in a turmoil as these thought bombarded my mind. All I could think of was to get out of that church. As I stood up to leave, the lady playing the organ suddenly stopped playing and began to give a word in tongues.

Even as she was speaking and well before any interpretation I could hear God speaking and the first thing I heard was "Frank." My name on His lips. This was so significant to me because I had never heard my name on my earthly fathers lips. This might seem strange to some folks unless they grew up in sever dysfunction and in the madness of a violent alcoholic. He only ever called me idiot. And so to hear that name coming from my heavenly Fathers lips stopped me dead in my tracks. He said "look." I looked and I was standing at Calvary in this vision. I could see myself kneeling below the cross and as I looked up to the cross every part of me knew that I had put the Lord up there and there was such agony in this.

As I stood quite a distance behind myself watching me kneel there, I noticed the blood that was dripping down the Lord's Body. My eyes were fixed on the lowest drop as it dripped off His toe and fell toward me as I was kneeling below Him. I watched that drop of Blood land on my head and suddenly I was back standing in the church, tears streaming down my face, all the torment gone, never to return. I cried for the next six months. I cried every time I heard a sermon. I cried every time I read the Word, I cried every time I heard the name of Jesus. I am sure people thought I was quite emotionally disturbed :)

Calvary, the power to heal, the power to forgive, the power to cleanse. Calvary where the Lord humiliated the enemy although it looked quite the opposite. It was Calvary before it was Calvary afterwards and it is Calvary forever. The Son of God triumphing over hell and death and sin.This is why Calvary lies at the very heart of who we are, the beating heart of every Christian is the finished work of Calvary alive in them, out of death sprung life and that more abundantly................bro Frank

 2016/6/3 17:35

 Re: Frank and Leslie

Wonderful testimonies! Just coming to the Savior as you sre to be cleansed by Him.

In my younger years I knew there was a God. But I did not know how to know him. For short time I went to a Catholic High School. I thought the best thing to do was to take instructions to become a Catholic. (Brother Frank I'm sure you're smiling at this) After the first session I knew Catholicism was not for me. I was even introduced to Mormonism briefly (Sister Leslie you're probably smiling at this) But sfter a brirf time found out that Mormonism was not my cup of coffee.:)

I knew that something was tugging at my heart. I didn't realize it was the Holy Spirit at the time. Back in the days when one could do this my social studies teacher invited me to her church in to a youth group that she sponsored. It was at the youth group I noticed that there was a change of life in these young people. Later the pastor of the church met with me. He shared with me the claims of Jesus Christ. He showed me that to become a Christian I needed to invite Jesus into my heart. I prayex the sinner's prayer asking Jesus to come into my heart and forgive me of my sins. Later through the ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ I pray to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And since then. By the grace of God I have walked with the Lord Jesus Christ for 40-plus years.

My Testimony is not as dramatic as that of my sister Leslie or brother Frank. But I know Christ is in my heart. And I did not have to have Moses preach to me to know that there was a cross that forgive me of my sins.

Brothers and sisters this is my simple testimony in Jesus.

 2016/6/3 18:00

Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1865


Frank Iv met plenty who don't believe there sinners ,but actual believe there righteous , but not perfect ,,most people I know think they are good people ,that's where the law comes in ,to make sin exceeding sinful,

Rather the sin being ok and not really sin....

 2016/6/3 18:31Profile


by appolus on 2016/6/3 17:10:35

"If someone is already well aware that they have been biten by a venomouse snake and are already seeking and open to the antidote, than it would be unnecessary to point out there condition them."

That reminds me of this:

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Apparenty, there are people who are not aware of any sin in their lives.

Luke 5:30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?


There are those who are prideful and arrogant and I believe there are those who are truly ignorant.

 2016/6/3 18:51

 Re: Context

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I challenge everyone to check for yourselves the context of the referenced verses, and please correct me if I am wrong:
In acts 1:36 and Acts 4:10 the Holy Spirit convicted the crowd/leaders (through Peter) of their own literal grievous sin that they had just recently committed. Peter was not afraid to tell them that they sinned. The leaders literally conspired to kill Jesus and the crowd agreed crying "Crucify Him!". Nowhere in the bible except when these same people were present are people told that they murdered Christ. They were pricked in their heart because they recognized their own sin, and repented. (or some hardened)
The same way today if a person through a Holy Spirit led preaching recognizes his sin will be pricked in his heart and repents (or hardens).
Acts 1:36-37
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 4:10
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

In 1st Corinthians 1:23 and 2:2 the meaning from the context is that Paul does not want anyone to teach or practice empty religion. It does not mean advising anyone against any portion of the scripture, but only means that when we teach those scriptures it should be done in the light of Christ's sacrifice.
The main character of the OT is Christ, he was slain from the beginning, He is the topic of every scripture including the law. Every time someone sinned they had to bring sacrifice for it. The law was constantly reminding people to God's provision and the (then future) coming of the Messiah.

1st Corinthians 2:2

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1st Corinthians 1:23

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

The expression "Preach only Christ crucified" as used in this thread and with the meaning it was given to it in this thread is not supported by the scriptures.

 2016/6/3 19:27


Hi Julias ,

I believe there is a huge difference between awareness of sin and acknowledgement of sin. Pride keeps sin well hidden but not from the bearer of the sin. Men have opinons on whether other men realize they are sinners or not but the Word says.......

Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

I really think this says it all about the wickedness or sin in man................bro Frank

 2016/6/3 19:56

 Re: Toszu

Dear sister respectfulky Frank and myself have reasoned our case from the word of God. In post after post I have set forth scriptures to show that under the New Covenant we preach Jesus. I have shown from the verses you yourself have quoted that Paul as well ad Peter preached Jesus and not law.

If anything those who hold to law have failed to demonstrate conclusely from the word of God that law must be preached brfore a person comes to Christ.

There is another thing though. Those who would hold to the law do not aknowledge the role if the Holy Spirit. At least do not acknowledge His role in the conviction of sin, judgenent, and righteousness as Jesus laid out in John 16:8-11. But then that is to be expected. For the law and the Spirit do not mix.

Sister the law is a shadow. Christ is the substance. We sre to preach the substance of Christ. Not the shadow of the law.

My thoughts dear sister.

 2016/6/3 19:57


Hi Zsuanna ,

All men are guilty of Jesus being crucified not simply the Jews, He died for your sins and He died for mine. You put Him on the cross and I put Him on the cross you were guilty of his and I was guilty of this, this is basic Christianity sister. If you deny this, and you seem to be, we must agree to disagree and consider ourselves to be not on the same page.There would be no point in continuing to post on this thread, since we are so many poles apart and I would respectfully ask that there be no needless contention and 100 more posts to back up your points which I beleive to be fundamentally flawed. Perhaps you could start a thread stating that only the Jewish people were guilty of crucifying Jesus and that the Scriptures mentioned having nothing to do with anyone other than those present when it was spoken. That would be 100% wrong but I have no desire to discuss it here on this thread..........bro Frank

 2016/6/3 20:04


Thank you brother Blaine for your testimony, surely this is a most wonderful way of seeing the truths of the Scripture playing out in the lives of the saints today. Rather than trying to endlessly make theological points and winning arguments, sharing our own testimonies is personal and a great way of teaching others and actually draws us all closer together as we see how the Spirit of God is working in and through us today..............bro Frank

 2016/6/3 20:17

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