I believe Paul Washer still commands respect in this forum. A few years ago the brother gave a very sobering message warning us about the reality of persecution coming up on the American Church.

Yet what I hear coming from this forum is that persecution in America is non-existent. Indeed I think what I'm hearing is that persecution is not going to come upon the United States.

So my question is did Paul Washer get it wrong?

Blaine

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Bear- I don't think he is wrong.

But I do think something major will have to happen first- like a bunch of "Christian" terrorists committing some horrible act of destruction and claiming God told them to do it. It would have to be so bad that people would fear Christians as much as they do radical muslims.

Refusing to perform SSM will not be a sufficient catalyst.

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Todd

By the way- if you could provide a link to his message I'd appreciate it.

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Todd

Hi Todd, here is an alternative scenario to your view that some kind of Christian terrorists would have to be involved to cause persecution against the saints. I wrote it a couple of years ago but for what it is worth, here it is.........

This subject can be very difficult to approach today because there have been so many crazy people claiming when the end of the world would happen. The below scenario reckons on the saints going through the great tribulation. Therefore there is no particular day or hour that is looked for, rather a season, birth pangs if you like. We are told by Jesus that we should be able to discern the signs of the times, not the day nor the hour of His return. In any event, most peoples of the world and the church have a difficult time imagining a time where Christians would be hunted down and killed for the mere fact of being Christian. They may be able to imagine this in a Muslim world setting, but not in the West. I do not claim that the scenario below is prophetic, I merely wish to show you a logical procession of events that could lead to a world-wide persecution of the true saints.

I think we may all agree that Jesus is coming relatively soon. Where we may disagree is on the subject of rapture. Lets assume there is no rapture and Jesus is coming soon, then the saints will go through the great tribulation. The Scriptures tells us that it will be worse than anything that has ever happened before in history, in fact the Lord must shorten those days for the elects sake or we would all be dead.

Just 70 years ago, in the heart of educated and cultured Europe, in a country that pronounced itself to be Christian, an evil man arose and in six short years, killed six million Jews for the mere fact of being Jewish. He shoved them into gas chambers and then burned them in furnaces, men, woman and children, sparing none. Now this is not some Biblical genocide from the ancient world, this is something that happened just 70 years ago. Now what kind of events would need to unfold for the world to turn on Christians and for there to be a coming together of the world religions into one religion?

Lets say tomorrow there is an attack by Muslim extremists on multiple cities. New York, Washington, London, Paris Rome and Moscow are hit simultaneously with nuclear suitcase bombs. Rather than the three thousand dead of 9/11, there is one hundred thousand dead in each city. The world is repulsed and is brought together because of this great tragedy. Fundamentalists of all stripes are universally condemned and outlawed. To state publicly that there is only one true religion, only one way to heaven, becomes illegal. Such people are denounced as those who have caused all the troubles in the world. They are seen as a cancer on society which society must rid itself of.

So society gives them a chance to renounce such believes. At the same time, the major religions of the world have a summit. Islam, Christianity and the Jewish faith come together for a summit in Rome. Pope Francis leads the summit because he is universally respected. When the meeting is over they announce that they can all trace their roots back to Abraham. That they all worship the same God just in different ways. They announce that there are multiple roads to heaven and that to say otherwise is merely hate speech. They agree to drop Jesus and Mohammed from their literature and only speak in terms of God and His prophets, agreeing to stand upon what they agree on and bringing a historic unity that will usher in a new day, a new order for the world where there is equality for all.

The vast majority of the world hail this and rejoice in it. A small minority resist it and in the shadow of the multiple hundreds and thousands of deaths, the world hates them with a perfect hatred. They hate them more than the Germans hated the Jews. The minority cannot find work and are ultimately arrested for continuing to ” share the Gospel.” While they are a minority, they are still in the millions and camps are set up to imprison them because the prison system cannot contain them. An ever-growing hatred by the general public and resentment that they have to be fed and kept eventually leads to the decision to make it a capital offense punishable by death to be a fundamental Christian.......bro Frank

I think to some degree we are already seeing some of what you wrote here Bro Frank. Bits and pieces of it anyway.

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D.Miller

Very well laid out brother Frank, I think this is a very plausible scenerio. Ultimately it comes down to control. Jesus was killed because the ruling religious class were afraid of losing their power. I think as you stated the same thing will happen after the anti-Christ comes to power. It would not surprise me if very few Christians see it coming. In other words, that he hides his true agenda and only after some years (like Hitler) will he begin his master plan to exterminate anybody who stands in his way.

Here is the SermonIndex YouTube link for the Paul Washer clip:

https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=C7UyZYpeReY

Transcript: "The church in America is going to suffer so terribly and you laugh now but they will come after us, they will come after our children, they will close the net around us while we are playing soccer mom and soccer dad, when we’re arguing over so many little things and mesmerized by so many trinkets. The net even now is closing around you and your children and your grandchildren and it does not cause you to fear. You will be isolated from society as has already happened, anyone who tries to run for office who actually believes the Bible will be considered a lunatic until finally we are silenced. We will be called things that we’re not and persecuted not for being followers of Christ, but for being radical fundamentalists who do not know the true way of Christ, which of course is love and tolerance. We’ll go down as the greatest bigots and haters of mankind in history. They’'ve already come after your children and for most of you they got them. They got them through the public schools and indoctrination in the University and indoctrination and then you wonder why your children come out not serving the Lord. It’s because you fed them right into the devil’'s mouth.

So, little by little the net is closing around and then it’s not little by little. Look how fast things are going downhill just in a matter of weeks, matter of weeks; but at the same time know this: persecution is always meant for evil, but God always means it for good. And is it not better to suffer in this life to have an extra weight of glory in Heaven? You must settle this in your mind, this is the one thing I want to say over and over: Do not believe...down through history you have a wrong idea of martyrdom and persecution, you think that these men were persecuted and martyred for their sincere faith in Jesus Christ, that was the real reason, but no one heard that publicly. They were martyred and they were persecuted as enemies of the state, as child molesters, as bigots, as narrow-minded stupid people who had fallen for a ruse and can contribute nothing to society. Your suffering will not be noble, so your mind must be filled with the Word of God when all people persecute you and turn on you and if the Spirit of God and common grace pulls back and you see even your children and your grandchildren tossing in the lot that you should die. This is no game.

You want revival and awakening, but know this, for the most part great awakenings have come only preceding great national catastrophes [of?] the persecution of the church. I believe God is bringing a great awakening but I believe that He is raising up young men who are strong in trust in the providence of God to be able to wade through the hell that’s going to break loose on us and it will be on us before we even recognize it; unless, unless in God’s providence He is not done, He is not done. And no[te?], this is, this is not silly talk. Apart from great awakening, these things are going to come upon you. Be ready to lose your homes, your cars, and everything."

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SI Moderator - Brandy Gordon

No, he was not wrong.

I know true Holy Spirit inspired prophetic unction when I see/discern it. That was one of those "prophetic words" moments. Saw David Wilkerson move in that before too. Others have been & are prophesying even now similarly. He wasn't wrong. The Lords timing & what He means by what He has one share & what we think can be slightly different, but I believe that to be of the Lord when he shared that. For sure