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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : David Ravenhill: Donald Trump Is a Deceiver

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 Re:

Quote:
by bearmaster on 2016/3/1 13:29:58

Brothers I do not want to get caught up in the controversy over whether a believer should vote or not vote. Whether one should be involved in politics or not involved in politics.

But I do pose this question. Can a believer vote for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton with a clear conscience? I think in November that's who the choice will be for president.



Bear, by the same token, the brethren who vote can ask us if we can abstain from voting with a clear conscience. Let's not go there. We should not be judging someone's conscience as we don't want our conscience judged. If a man has faith to vote, then I say he has the liberty to vote. If a man does not have faith to vote, he also has the liberty not to vote. God is able to show either of us what His will is. Let's give the Lord the liberty to speak to us, if we don't then we make it harder for men to hear Him.

 2016/3/1 13:52









 Re:

there is NO WAY this thread will end well, sans Greg just shutting it down.

 2016/3/1 13:55
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 Re:

Thank you saints for allowing this discussion to be civil and with the fruits of the Spirit. I was hesitant to post it as we almost never post anything near towards politics, especially american! But I felt the encouragement of the Lord to do so.

There have been alot of very good clear points made by saints in this thread.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/3/1 13:56Profile









 Re:

that kind of palaver is WRECKING THIS FORUM.

 2016/3/1 13:57
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1672
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Jeff and Mike, brothers, I want to be clear.

I do not argue that Ted Cruz should repent because he is wrong to run. I asked that God will cause him to repent of any notions of presidency or even as senator because he does believe that government power is a source of good. It patently is not and cannot be. I think Sen. Cruz is deceived, but I accept him in Christ. My prayer is for God's mercy on him and us to awaken him and all of us from this delusion.

Jeff, I am a lawyer. I live from inside the very machine I rage against. I am firmly convinced that our government is, was, and ever shall be an anti-Christ monster. Any observations of hypocrisy, if you make them, would be duly noted and most likely affirmed by my own years-long cognitive dissonance.

I do not condemn anyone for voting. I do LONG for all in Christ to disconnect from the governments of this world and live in the kingdom of God as the apostles and the disciples did in the early church. There is simply no evidence that God is moving in the hearts of men to vote for any candidate, party or policy. There is evidence in history that men are moved upon by Him to disavow the system and live subject to it but not in support of it.


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Tim

 2016/3/1 13:58Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5678
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 Re:

But Tim when the NT was written believers had absolutely no say as to who their leader would be. We do. Are we not to be steward of what we have been given?

I think Bills point was that Carter claimed to be an evangelical when he ran- he taught Sunday school and everything. But he stunk the place up as president.

No one has yet answered my question why the POTUS has to be an evangelical Christian. We make no such requirements of CEOs of major corporations.


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Todd

 2016/3/1 14:03Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3613
Louisiana

 Re:

It is good that we can discuss these issues without getting out of fellowship, because often getting into a discussion over politics is like a fight that never ends, then when all parties are exhausted, beaten down, bruised, and everything that can be said is said, the referee shuts down the fight. But the amazing thing about this fight is that nobody ever wins, but everybody looses.


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Mike

 2016/3/1 14:18Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1672
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Why is the assumption that democracy is a gift? Is it personally preferable? Ok. Sure. I guess. But, there is no reason to view it as a gift to steward. In fact, I would submit that democracy is like giving a three year old a loaded gun with a bright green trigger. We kill, we steal, we destroy, we control, we crush, we take. That is what the "demos" does. I don't find any reason to believe that there is objective virtue in choosing lesser evils. I also don't find any reason to find anyone at fault for refusing to accept being painted into that corner. And, we are being painted into one by the forceful pleas to choose and participate and be heard, to at least try and thwart SCOTUS nominations, etc. It is valid and I think uniquely legitimate to walk across that painted floor in utter disregard.

I also think it misses the point to say NT believers had no say. Jesus had the full vote of heaven's angels but stayed silent, disavowing the rule of this world while yielding to it. I do believe that Jesus would have us do likewise. I am convinced biblically that He makes an open demonstration of the futility of the powers of this age in His resurrection, and I am sorely afraid that we do not think that powerful enough on its own anymore.


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Tim

 2016/3/1 14:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by TMK on 2016/3/1 14:03:30

But Tim when the NT was written believers had absolutely no say as to who their leader would be. We do. Are we not to be steward of what we have been given?



Personally, I think that the people have no say, but they are made by men to think they do. For surely, God is not making us think we have any say/power over worldly governments through a ballot. Prayer yes, ballots, hmmmm.

Promotion comes not from the east or west but from the hand of God. So, if promotion comes from God and He raises up Kings and puts them down, has God commanded through the ballot, or is He wanting our prayers and intercession? If He has commanded through the ballot, then we must work to make sure every country has the ballot, but then we will be to busy for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Quote:
by TMK on 2016/3/1 14:03:30
Are we not to be steward of what we have been given?



What has been given to us? What do we possess that we can control? Do you really have control? If not, you are not a steward.

 2016/3/1 14:25









 Re:

Brothers I do commend the discussion on this thread. The posts have been civil on this thread. Even if we have a different perspective on things. Basically the posters have been respectful of one another. I pray I have been respectful to the posters as they have been toward me. This is what a Christian forum should be.

I have been given food for thought through the posting of others. Regarding our involvement in politics. Particularly in the area of voting.

I might add I am not posting in a vacuum. I have worked for a number of years for the Arkansas State Assembly.. I have seen the workings of government albeit at the state level. So I would agree with what a brother posted. There is an anti-christ spirit that is working in the levels of government.

Simply my thoughts.

 2016/3/1 14:46





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