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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is It Possible to Reform the Religious System?

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 Re:

Oracio writes " unfortunately one has no choice but to trust in and wait on the Lord to bring a good fellowship in one's path." I think it is a good thing to trust in and wait on the Lord wherever we are.............bro Frank

 2015/11/22 14:50









 Re:

I would be grateful for one alive and vibrant brother. Two brothers in agreement and unity can accomplish much. Two are better than one for if one falls... the other will lift him up.

 2015/11/22 14:56
Jasmine
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Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 96


 Re:

No but the scary thing for me is that I've seen people make “church” an idol. It's like the qualification for Salvation isn't Jesus Christ but going to “church”. I've met people whose question isn't, “do you know the Lord Jesus Christ” but rather “what church do you go to?” As if that tells you really anything about my spiritual condition. It's in that moment that I am usually rejected when I say “I don't go to church” (Holy Spirit led me out of that system). In some cases, it gets even scarier when people go to “church” and have no clue who Jesus is. That happened with somebody in my family and it shook me to the bone. The person had positions and titles but couldn't really tell me anything about the Lord. By the grace and wisdom of God, I was able to redirect them back to Jesus Christ but it scared me. I think it was the first time I actually saw up close and personal what “mental assent” really looked like. How it played out in a person's life. So no I don't think you can reform a religious system. I just think God works in spite of it as He deals with the people in that system from the pulpit to the pew and beyond.

 2015/11/22 15:02Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen Frank, I definitely don't want to limit what God can do in terms of working out His perfect will in our lives regardless of our situations.

Amen Julius.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/22 15:24Profile









 Re:

So true, Jasmine. Just the fact that the term "go to church", is a term coined by the religious system and has no bearing or meaning in the NT.

We all know it means "go to a building", and that alone tells you about the mentally ascented mind set they have.

Where you "go to church" is a primary question in their spiritual interviews. It is usually the first or second question.

Praise God that the person you ministered to was open to revelation and correction.

 2015/11/22 15:25









 Re:

Jasmine writes..........

"It's like the qualification for Salvation isn't Jesus Christ but going to “church”. I've met people whose question isn't, “do you know the Lord Jesus Christ” but rather “what church do you go to?” As if that tells you really anything about my spiritual condition. It's in that moment that I am usually rejected when I say “I don't go to church” (Holy Spirit led me out of that system)"

This is so true Jasmine and since coming out of that system I have experienced the same. It takes quite a while before all that nonsense is filtered out of our spirits, its so ingrained. I am reminded that the Church is the Body of Christ and not the building on the corner..........bro Frank

 2015/11/22 16:36
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Jasmine, I agree that that's a wrong, warped mindset for traditional church Christians to have. On the other side, I have also come across anti-traditional Christians who think traditional Christians are unsaved for choosing to "remain in the system". So it works both ways. Once we start judging others' salvation based on these peripheral issues it gets ugly.


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Oracio

 2015/11/22 19:17Profile









 Re:

Yes, while we can judge a false system, we cannot judge that all who partake in the false system are unsaved.

After all, Jesus is calling His disciples out of the false religious system, so obviously saved people are in it. These are our brothers and sisters.

 2015/11/22 22:33
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
After all, Jesus is calling His disciples out of the false religious system, so obviously saved people are in it. These are our brothers and sisters.


My brother, I do appreciate that you acknowledge those who fellowship in traditional churches as brothers and sisters in the Lord. I will say this as a friendly challenge though. If Jesus is calling all of His disciples who are in this “system” to come out of it physically, why is it that the vast majority of them are like, “I haven’t gotten that memo from the Lord”? I think your answer may be something to the effect of (and this is where we disagree),“Those who refuse to come out are not fully following the Lord and will lose out on that, though they won’t lose their salvation on account of it." But I’m like, no, I believe the Lord specifically has his remnant in these churches to use them there for His glory. I do believe He is calling some of them out (very few at the present time by the looks of things) but not all. Not all of these churches have gone apostate though many have. If we’re dealing with apostate traditional churches I’d say yes, the Lord would have you to come out lest you share in their sin and destruction. Just some friendly food for thought, that’s all. Peace, I'm out.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/23 0:34Profile
Jasmine
Member



Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 96


 Re:

@ Oracio

When it comes to the religious system, I don't tell people to stay or go. I believe every person has to be fully persuaded in their own mind as to where they are to be. When I left the religious system, I left in peace but I had to wait before the Lord for Him to get that system out of me. I'm not going into details but it's a real process and one that I continue in because there are “things” that show up from time to time. I do realize that there are saints that can be in the religious system and that system not be in them but I wasn't one of them. So for me it's really about people knowing if they are a part of God's Church through His son Jesus Christ and not just part of a “church”. Also knowing where you are supposed to be because that is what the Lord would have not man.

I've been Saved for more than a minute and in all honesty I can't recall ever meeting a Christian who mentioned to me that people are unsaved for staying in the system. The closest I've come is in regards to a particular religious system but I'm not getting into that here. I will say though even with that, I've never heard of anyone trying to revoke someone's Salvation. Have you ever asked those who have an anti-church sentiment why they feel the way they do? Seeing that you're labeling Christians as “traditional church Christians”, what are you calling those of us Christians who don't go to “church”? I'm just trying to understand...

 2015/11/23 2:03Profile





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