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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Is It UnChristian To Not Want Syrian Refugees?

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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


As concerned citizens, I think it is our duty to express concern where we see danger.

I agree Cliff. If you get wind of a terrorist operation you report it!! But we'll not likely know. So we pray that our law enforcers will do their job.

The problem is with the IMAGINED danger – mob paranoia/terror – which is just what terrorists want to see. It gives them power over us! If we view every Muslim as a potential threat, we’ll be inhospitable and in that way fail to exemplify Christ. We merely reinforce their negative assumptions about Christianity. And the ones that suffer most are the ones "on the bottom" - the homeless, children, etc.

According to Tom Doyle, author of “Dreams and Visions”, Muslims are turning to Christ through dreams and visions IN CONJUNCTION with the love of vibrant believers.


 2015/11/20 17:50Profile

Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1911


No worries blain,I had a giggle anyways..

 2015/11/21 1:14Profile

 dearest Blaine

all of what you wrote in your "Saints let us realize that our citizenship ultimately is in heaven" post are true words, but may I reason with you?

you wrote:
"The scriptures tell us that we are sojourner's and aliens. We are ambassadors for the Lord Jesus Christ. He has commissioned us to go and to preach the gospel and to make disciples of all nations."

amen, true.

two points though; no man "preached" a human word to when God was pleased to break me, and then in the quiet of my despair, God the Holy Spirit, the Ruach HaKodesh, revealed His Son TO me and IN me, the Messiah Jesus, and for reasons unexplainable I KNEW I must seek a Church, and God used my son's mother, who was seeking to lead me to Hope, where I spent a fruitful season of 4 years with a Godly mentor.

secondly, yes! Preach the Gospel, but has been said, "i'll preach the Gospel, and if I must, i'll use words".

the way (as opposed "The Way") some comport themselves, begs the question, how do they make outsiders "ENVIOUS of so Great a Salvation?"

you wrote: " We can lose our lives." amen, true.

Blaine, beloved, I AM ALREADY DEAD, dead to self, dead to this flesh, just DEAD, that's part and parcel of the Gospel, the Good News, that the Son of God FREES us from the BONDAGE of the FEAR of "death"......and Glory to God, I had that blessed moment in 2008, when I lay on a gurney, with a 105 fever, Bible resting on my chest, doctors come up to me, as I had a fell pathogen in my body, and they told me I was 50/50 (and I think they were being generous)

at that moment my dear brother, the Holy Ghost JUST FLOODED INTO ME......with JOY!!!! It was like Paul "Philippian" moment, ie "i don't which is better, to be with Messiah, or stay here with you".....I wanted to SHOUT for joy!! (but stayed my mouth, because after all this was an emergency room)...instead I asked if they could send the "chaplain"....because ALL I wanted was another "brother" to celebrate this GLORIOUS FREEDOM!!....and God love this dear little young man, he thought I wanted some turgid prayer to "save my life", and when he saw my face glowing, and smiling, and testifying to the Truth of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, and my earthly bonds being CUT BY God the Holy Ghost...."If the Son makes you free, you are free indeed"!!!!

Man, that poor fellow couldn't WAIT to flee from me, I sure frightened him...didn't mean to, I just wanted another brother to share my Joy at the Glory and the Love and the Mercy of God the Holy Spirit...I didn't CARE, whether this body of flesh, this blade of grass, DIED.....OR, (as it is now) stays with why fear man?

Now, as i'm sure you're well aware, there are many souls on this very forum that SEEM to enjoy long turgid arguments over this "ism" or that "ism"...or this "DOCTRINE", or that "DOCTRINE".....which is fine...well, actually its a poor witness, but everybody has a "hobby", and you could worse hobbies than "religion".....well again, actually not, as "religion" can be a very bloody violent "hobby"....."church" history underlines that truth, same with these "jihadist's" and their theocracies in these days as well.....but I said all that to say this: The Gospel of the Kingdom is so so simple.

How do I know?.....Jesus told me:

"At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:1-4 ESV)

and THEN Jesus broke down 613 laws/decrees into Two very simple Royal Commandments:....first the Schma, and if I have to explain the Schma, one should ask themselves, "Am I TRULY ingrafted into the Vine?"....and the second , Jesus took from Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself".

so we have from Messiah Jesus, the heartspace to enter the Kingdom, and then we have the Two Royal Commandments from Jesus, deceptively simple, yet so hard to attain 24/7/365, but with being Fire Baptized WE CONTEND....and then finally, we get the swan song, the Love Appeal from Jesus:

and why He is NOT irresistible to mortal man?, is way out of my "job description" or understanding, here it is:

" Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”" (Matthew 11:28-30 ESV)

That is the Good News of the Kingdom, the Call, the simple.

in closing, I simply must speak; my heart BREAKS for that poor pastor, could not even IMAGINE the sheer soul rending grief, and you capped off that horrendous account with:

"Ultimately it is God who is our protector."

again, I say yes and amen, but I ask, did not Jesus tell us to be as innocent as doves and shrewd as snakes?

and doves will alight on nothing dead, or unclean, and aren't some snakes lethal, befanged with vemon?

and do not demoniacs walk the surface of this earth, bent on murder and rape?......including some evil acts as home invasion? a husband has a DUTY to help his wife protect herself, and increasingly across this soon to be judged nation, in the urban areas murderous deviltry is nearing dystopian depths.

the LAW regarding home invasion is that the invader can be stopped, ended, by any means, up to and including lethal means, which means twas my wife, she would have a Ruger LC9 semi-auto handgun, its small, I call it a "girl gun", but if you load it with Speer LE "Gold Dots"?....and she was properly range trained? this home invader would have at the most three second to live before, he received two tightly placed rounds to his forehead.

but to each, walk as thy may.

"That's unscriptural!" , no, Jesus SAID, "Shrewd as a snake"

Someone wrote in one of the posts about a warrior being hatefilled and angry(i'm paraphrasing) that is no warrior, anger and hatred cloud the senses and reflexes when one is called upon to protect hearth and kin. A warrior, gets calm and cold, acts swiftly, awake.

You (and undoubtedly others) will disagree, might even term me NOT a "true Christian" ( I love the way that term is bandied about on this forum) but my conscience is clear in the Holy Ghost.

God love you Blaine, neil

 2015/11/21 10:15

 Re: dearest Blaine

What made Jesus irresistible to the Jews in the NT times? Why did so many come to Christ? What was it that made them jealous? The Early Church was predominantly former Jews in the flesh the first 15 years. Now, they were true Jews, circumcised in the heart. Did the Early Church support carnal weapons to repel the enemies of Israel? Is this what made the Jews jealous and caused them to come to Christ in droves? Is this what the New Testament teachings and Early Church history reflect?

I submit that whatever it was that made the Jews jealous then, will ONLY make them jealous, now.

 2015/11/21 12:12

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504

 Re: Is It UnChristian To Not Want Syrian Refugees?

I did not read many of the responses to this post but do want to say I agree 100% with you.

Not all that long ago I would have disagreed with you but something happened to change my mind.

For starters I will have to tell you that our family physician was/is Muslim from Pakistan. He is a very nice person, concerned for his clients, helps them in all the ways possible. Assuming all Muslims would be like him I would have said the alarm against Muslims would have been misguided.


This summer a young Muslim man, Oda, whom we knew was arrested by the FBI at a nearby airport as he and his fiancee` were fixing to fly to Turkey to get married and then go onto Syria to join the ISIS. We have seen this girl - she was very pretty, young, ambitious, smart, dressed modestly - who helped Oda's mother sell her goods at the Farmer's Market. I used to talk with this fellow, helped him set up his canopy - he was just plain downright nice, no two ways about it.

One day as I was reading about the atrocities inflicted by the ISIS upon others the idea of Oda being a member of the ISIS flowed through my brain but I dismissed it as being absurd - he would never doing anything like that, surely not! But I was wrong. So wrong. I felt like I was kicked in my stomach.

Now, I no longer trust Muslims, Arabic Christians, yes, but not Muslims. Is this the only reason I mistrust them? No. Other reports have come our way - reports you will not read about in the news - that prove many are not law abiding people...

Am I unchristian to not want them here? Liberals and others will say yes. All I can say is I am sad. I do not want my granddaughters to live in the vicinity of Muslims. I do not want them raped and suffer the disaster that follows these victims. Is this ungodly? Is it ungodly to expect immigrants to obey the law of the land? Have they done this in other countries into which they have fled? If you want lawlessness to be the norm, why not just empty the state prisons - could save the state a lot of money, as I think about it...

My opinion.


Sandra Miller

 2015/11/25 9:20Profile

Joined: 2006/3/15
Posts: 12


This is the rhema I am receiving today:

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Is a mixture of innocent and malicious refugees not the natural backsplash from this nation's decades of exporting immorality and violence around the world? As Christ's body, the responsibility I sense is for both contrition over the sins of our nation, and also recognition that those same sins fuel the propaganda machines which mislead young Muslims. Otherwise saints fearing for their safety may be tricked into neglecting their authority to minister truth and reconciliation.


 2015/12/4 11:55Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


My wife and I read some passages this morning while we were conversing about the recently recovered seal from King Hezekiah (I made a separate thread about the article in the News section). We read II Kings chapters 18-20.

One of the interesting parts of Hezekiah's life is the point in which an envoy arrived from Babylon with gifts (because they heard that Hezekiah was sick).


II Kings 20:12-19 (NASB):

"12 At that time Berodach-baladan a son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah, for he heard that Hezekiah had been sick. 13 Hezekiah listened to them, and showed them all his treasure house, the silver and the gold and the spices and the precious oil and the house of his armor and all that was found in his treasuries. There was nothing in his house nor in all his dominion that Hezekiah did not show them. 14 Then Isaiah the prophet came to King Hezekiah and said to him, “What did these men say, and from where have they come to you?” And Hezekiah said, “They have come from a far country, from Babylon.” 15 He said, “What have they seen in your house?” So Hezekiah answered, “They have seen all that is in my house; there is nothing among my treasuries that I have not shown them.”

16 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the Lord. 17 ‘Behold, the days are coming when all that is in your house, and all that your fathers have laid up in store to this day will be carried to Babylon; nothing shall be left,’ says the Lord. 18 ‘Some of your sons who shall issue from you, whom you will beget, will be taken away; and they will become officials in the palace of the king of Babylon.’” 19 Then Hezekiah said to Isaiah, “The word of the Lord which you have spoken is good.” For he thought, “Is it not so, if there will be peace and truth in my days?”


Previously, Hezekiah had allied himself with Egypt -- to the point that the Assyrians questioned the rationality of that alliance (II Kings 18:21-24). I don't know what prompted Hezekiah to show the Babylonian envoy all of his treasures. I suppose that we can speculate that he may have rethought his alliance with Egypt or assumed that Babylon might secure his eastern borders, but we will never know.

The problem, however, was that Hezekiah's decision wasn't wise from a purely nationalistic (or even rational) point of view. Today, we would say that it was "TMI" -- sharing "too much information."

Now, there is certainly an aspect of altruism in international relations. The West is being encouraged and even prompted to accept "refugees" from areas ravaged by ISIS or other violent terrorist groups.

However, the vetting process of immigration is apparently being reduced or even ignored in many cases. Of course, no one is saying that all Muslims are violent or adhere to a violent code in the name of Islam. However, there are sizable numbers that, even fractional, would represent a large number of people who embrace violence as a viable means of "defending the faith."

There are many polls taken among Muslims in the west and Islamic nations to gauge their views from everything from Shariah Law to "honor killing" to their views of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims. The views differ from nation to nation and region to region. One poll taken by Pew Research on the issue of "honor killings" (the execution of individuals by family members or others for conduct that embarrasses the family or violating principles of Islamic law) was surprising.

In even "westernized" Muslim nations like Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan, a sizable percentage of Muslims believe that honor killings are justified and a legitimate part of Islam. For instance, 19% of Muslims in Jordan believe that "honor killings" are justified if a male committed the offense, but 66% of Muslims in Jordan believe that they are acceptable if a female committed the offense. This sort of thinking is shocking to most westerners -- but is undoubtedly a "norm" in many Islamic nations.

In fact, the same poll found that 34% of Muslims in Russia believe in honor killings for males and 40% believe in honor killings for females. In other word, "integration" into a more open society does NOT translate to changing views on violence in the name of Islam. Another poll conducted by a German think tank found that 45% of Muslims in Europe feel that "Jews cannot be trusted." The poll also found that 65% of European Muslims felt that Islamic law supersedes national law and 54% believe that the West wants to destroy Islam.

This isn't the thinking of "fringe" religious fundamentalists. This represents the thinking of mainstream Muslims who live in Europe. One could argue that this is incompatible with the culture of the United States, Canada or other western nations.

If you are a parent and have young children, would you risk accepting guests who might be a danger to your wife and child? Now, think of this question on a national scale. The issue is not one of altruism. The refugees from Syria could easily be taken in by surrounding Islamic nations where the cultures, religion and beliefs are shared. However, those nations do not have the easy social welfare systems set up by Western nations on behalf of citizens. Consequently, it would be easier to live well in the west than elsewhere. However, this certainly opens the door for radicals to take advantage of the hospitality and open doors.

My wife has a few fish tanks. This is a fun hobby for her. She has two large tanks a few smaller tanks around the house. In one of the larger tanks, we had a peaceful community of fish that lived well together. There was an established pecking order and the diverse group of fish had coexisted for more than a year. My wife went to the store and bought a particular fish that is known to be semi-aggressive. However, she found that many other people had integrated one of these fish into large tanks and they acclimated nicely with the other fish. My wife felt confident that the same would be the case in one of our large tanks. She bought a very small, colorful and peaceful-looking fish from the store -- thinking that its small size would help keep it lower on the pecking order given the larger fish in the tank.

Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. One by one, fish began to die. This never happened when we were in front of the tank. In fact, we weren't sure how it was happening. At first, we thought that it was something in the water (e.g., disease, ammonia level, etc.), but these all tested negative. We even recorded the tank at times during the day when we were away. We didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Within a few weeks, nearly all of our peaceful fish -- including the large ones -- were gone (sometimes one fish per day). Eventually, we set up a camera at night and discovered that, in darkness, this little fish would target and hunt down another fish until it was dead.

That fish tank is now empty. All that is left is the small fish and a single algae eater. Now, I don't blame the fish -- because it was in its nature. We knew that it was semi-aggressive going in. However, we hoped that it would be acclimated to coexist with the others. That wasn't the case. We are the ones to blame.

I wonder if this might be an appropriate anecdote about what could happen with trying to integrate Muslims into the United States without first vetting their views.


 2015/12/4 14:04Profile

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