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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Great "Falling Away".The Maths doesnt Work!!

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 Re:

No kidding. Passerby.

Gotta love the king jimmy :)

marcmc

 2015/10/17 18:22
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 643


 Re:

I miss the man (king jimmy) and have a good heart with bro staff, though I may not agree with them in different issues.

Well, pre-tribulation rapture is a very comforting thing and may serve as a protective chaff for a young believer
who has predisposition to be overly anxious about future events.

But it may also serve as a snare specially to those who are
caught up with 'easy believism'. The thing is, being true disciple of Christ we may undergo severe trials where only only divine protection can save us.

The doctrinal, cultural, ethical, and legal changes that make our hearts groan are related to apostasia that when the man of sin is finally revealed he has a sort of full authority to persecute the true believers. Israel & Jews even, towards armageddon.

 2015/10/17 20:35Profile









 Re:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

What day is Paul talking about in 2Th 2:3?

The coming of the Lord Jesus (verse 1).

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

What will they fall away from? The Faith!
How many will fall away? SOME. (Basically, we are not told how many).

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

They will not endure sound doctrine. They will look for religious teachers that make them feel good.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

We are seeing all of these things, today. Everywhere! In many countries around the globe.

 2015/10/19 1:15
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
passerby wrote:
I miss the man (king jimmy) and have a good heart with bro staff, though I may not agree with them in different issues.


passerby,

I believe marcmc was talking about the King James Version of the Bible, not the person. I could be wrong and I think that because I've been known to call the King James that also but like I said, I could be wrong.

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2015/10/19 6:06Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 643


 Re:

Yes, I got it. I love the style of KJV but I usually use ESV or NKJV for my daily reading.

 2015/10/19 7:11Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1583


 Re:

Hi Dolfan,
Matthew Henrys Commentary is as good as any but I put it in to show that most people believe the sequence is the falling away then the revealing of the man of sin but also that it is a direct consequence that he cant come until the falling away.
I think the passage is cyrstal clear on that.
If you look at the scripture only it can only be taken as such.

Also My questions.
Do you think the falling away is great in numbers?
Why does the man of sin come after or during the falling away?
(and cannnot come before)(when only a small percentage of the worlds population are involved)
Why is it benefitial for the man of sin to come after or during a falling away of a relatively small percentage of the population?Why is the environment right for him to appear?
Why skirt around the question just answer.
Yours Staff

 2015/10/19 7:36Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1644
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Quote:

Hi Dolfan,
Matthew Henrys Commentary is as good as any but I put it in to show that most people believe the sequence is the falling away then the revealing of the man of sin but also that it is a direct consequence that he cant come until the falling away.
I think the passage is cyrstal clear on that.
If you look at the scripture only it can only be taken as such.

Also My questions.
Do you think the falling away is great in numbers?
Why does the man of sin come after or during the falling away?
(and cannnot come before)(when only a small percentage of the worlds population are involved)
Why is it benefitial for the man of sin to come after or during a falling away of a relatively small percentage of the population?Why is the environment right for him to appear?
Why skirt around the question just answer.
Yours Staff



Well, regarding Henry --- I'll just agree to disagree with you lovingly. He doesn't use language to imply cause/result. The passage expressly states a necessary sequence that one doesn't occur until the other, so when Henry agrees with that he's right and so are you and I. The causation link is one that I believe you are reading into the passage, and it appears to be the basis of much of your thoughts in this thread as to the numerical significance of the apostasy. We're speaking from two different planes of understanding on that and it is impossible for me to answer in the way that you want.

As I did, in fact, answer in an earlier post I don't know how many apostasize. I don't know raw numbers. I don't know percentages. I don't need to know. Oh, I have opinions. I had thought quite a while ago that maybe less than 10% of professing Christians in America, at least, are actually Christians. It was a while after I formed that opinion that I heard Leonard Ravenhill say (I think it was) 5%. So, put me in that camp that thinks maybe 90% of the church has already apostasized, I suppose. I am completely unable to relate that (OR ANY) number to any cause of the events that Jesus and the apostles Paul and John or any other biblical writer place afterward.

See, I don't think it is merely the "environment" being right for the man of sin to appear, but the timing from God's perspective of fullness of time. I don't think we can do more than guess wildly or try to intuit some reasons that might be responses to your questions.

I'm not skirting your questions, brother. I've answered them before straight on. I merely repeat here, and try to explain perhaps a bit more why my answers are what they are. I don't think your questions are answerable.


_________________
Tim

 2015/10/19 9:50Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638
NC, USA

 Re:

If the apostates are catholics(as per Matthew Henry) then at least half of professing Christians are apostate (because half of the worlds Christians are Catholics).

Toss into that mix all the Protestants who aren't really saved, as mentioned by Tim, then we would seem to have an apostasy that is almost complete.

In other words, it could get worse but it's already pretty bad.

If the rapture must occur prior to the apostasy, it is taking its good ol' time.

But by the same token the man of lawlessness is taking his good ol' time appearing---unless of course Henry was correct and the papacy was in view. It's been around right under our noses for centuries.


_________________
Todd

 2015/10/19 12:26Profile









 Re:

Don't forget that Paul says, "some will depart FROM THE FAITH".

So, it's not just Christian Cults like the Catholic Church.

 2015/10/19 14:06
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: I recall the words of Jesus

Mat_13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Mat_13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Mar_4:6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

Mar_4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

Luk_3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luk_8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

It is all a condition of our heart, our desire to serve a King or make ourselves the King, we can truly only serve one Master, under times of pressure our heart and loyalty is revealed.

The falling away will be a revealing of ones true heart and desires for Flesh or for Spirit

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 2015/10/28 21:55Profile





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