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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Great "Falling Away".The Maths doesnt Work!!

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staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1583


 Re:

Hi Dolfan,

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Yours Staff

 2015/10/15 19:46Profile
staff
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 Re:

Hi Julius,
Again im not getting into what the falling away is but only what i posted from the point of view that the "falling away" is from the church.
I am saying that if the falling away is from the church explain to me ....
True believers always act as a buffer against evil and perhaps maybe 200 billion might have died in wars in the 20th century if we werent around,who knows..
What I definitely know about OSAS is that whether you can or cannot may be debated long into the night but what is definite is that it is Extremely Hard to Loose your Salvation.So you could say im EHTLS person.Otherwise I,you,all the moderators,members,posters and readers of sermonindex would have lost it long long long ago.
Yours Staff

 2015/10/15 19:59Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
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 Re:

Hi Lysa,
I think probably more along your lines of thought and falling away from faith maybe what your describing.
I think most people would think that its global in size and effect even privately most of the sermonindex members.
I live in Ireland and its a strange time to be a Christian more than anywhere on the planet.Thousands of young people paid out on plane,train and boat tickets to get home to vote gay marriage into law.The first country in the world.
You wouldnt really understand the effect it has had on Christians.Funnily I had an eleven year old girl very bright say to me the other day.(non christian)
"My School is wierd,we have a Priest who is an Atheist marrying a Lesbian Couple". And its law.
That is a falling away from the Godly order of things or moving away if you would like to call that.
Their are now Guinneas adds promoting homosexuality on the tv as a direct result,So I can see a falling away happen right in front of my eyes but this time its official,
Yours Staff

 2015/10/15 20:12Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1644
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

You see a cause where there is not one. Sequence? Yes. Cause? No.

"I won't have breakfast until the eggs are scrambled and the sausage is fried and then my breakfast will be served." The eggs being scrambled did not cause the sausage to be fried or even breakfast to be served, but breakfast won't come without it.


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Tim

 2015/10/15 20:13Profile









 Re:

staff,

I feel like I am on a roller coaster or carousel with you.

No sense is being made and we keep going around and around and around. Please excuse me if I now bow out of this thread. I'm a bit dizzy.

Blessings to you,
Julius

 2015/10/15 21:03
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1583


 Re:

Hi Dolfan,
Here is an exerpt from Matthew Henrys Commentary

The apostle afterwards speaks of the revelation of that wicked one (v. 8), intimating the discovery which should be made of his wickedness, in order to his ruin: here he seems to speak of his rise, which should be occasioned by the general apostasy he had mentioned, and to intimate that all sorts of false doctrines and corruptions should centre in him


He knows the cause of the breakfast coming is that a cook has made it.
The man of sin would have no ability to arrive if their was no falling away,
Yours Staff

 2015/10/16 6:31Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1583


 Re:

Hi Julius,
These are fair points

1.We do know the figures if it happens now
Somewhere between 1 person and 2 billion people(if 100% fall away)and all that 2 billion are saved.
2.Are you now changing your mind and linking the number of people that fall away to the effect that it will cause?

Yours Staff

 2015/10/16 6:32Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638
NC, USA

 Re:

Staff-

Matthew Henry goes on to state that the papacy was the man of lawlessness and the Roman Empire was the restrainer.

Serious consideration should be given to his conclusion. It certainly seems to make sense.


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Todd

 2015/10/16 7:25Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1644
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Staff, my brother,

That is not cause. That is sequence. Today does not cause tomorrow, but tomorrow won't come until today passes. Same as the breakfast analogy.

Henry admits it. The revelation of the man of sin is "occasioned by" the apostasy. Now, we cannot and will not exegete Henry's phrase as it is mere commentary. But, the common use of that phrase, and Henry's own use of it, describes two things which occur close in time and are related. It is not causation.

But, certainly, you insist that apostasy is offered in 2 Thess. 2 as a cause of the revelation of the wicked one. You are doing so, I think, because in your mind it is vital proof of a pre-trib rapture. Honestly, if you believe that, OK. Who am I to keep you down?, as the old song says. You do not need a causal link between these two events to sustain that belief. I am certain that your pre-trib brethren are quite happy to keep looking up without any need to find a causal link here, and they actually do not need to. And, if you are going to hold to the pre-trib belief, do so without feeling like you have push something else into this text. Or, are you questioning that belief? I pray that even Christ Himself will reveal Himself to you and that any internal wrestling with this is resolved in His peace.


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Tim

 2015/10/16 7:29Profile
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 643


 Re:

Change Apostasia to aphestemi and that may solve the riddle of this thread.

 2015/10/17 1:55Profile





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