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passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 643


 Re:

All Israel will be save this way:

..."There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob"...Rom 11:26

 2015/10/11 18:42Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1583


 Re:

Hi All,
I'd be interested to know if anyone really believed that the falling away would be small in numbers?(in particular anyone who pointed out rightly it didnt say "great".)
I doubt it very much....because if it isnt small and its true believers well it cant happen anytime too soon unless of course their is huge harvest first
Yours Staff

 2015/10/11 19:06Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: passerby

RE: ///All Israel will be save this way:
..."There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob"...Rom 11:26///

Yes,
But the Deliverer has come out of Sion already.
and all of Israel by faith (Jews and Gentile) are being saved already and will continue to be saved untill the end.

add: A remnant of Jews will continue to be grafted back in, untill the fullness of the gentiles has come in, which is the end of the world. and so all of Israel by faith (Jews and Gentile) will be saved.

Read any one before the 19th century before Darby/Scolfield

Wesley's Notes for Romans 11:26


11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved - Being convinced by the coming of the gentiles. But there will be a still larger harvest among the gentiles, when all Israel is come in. The deliverer shall come - Yea, the deliverer is come; but not the full fruit of his coming.




 2015/10/11 20:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by proudpapa on 2015/10/11 20:13:03

RE: ///All Israel will be save this way:
..."There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob"...Rom 11:26///

Yes,
But the Deliverer has come out of Sion already.
and all of Israel by faith (Jews and Gentile) are being saved already and will continue to be saved untill the end.

add: A remnant of Jews will continue to be grafted back in, untill the fullness of the gentiles has come in, which is the end of the world. and so all of Israel by faith (Jews and Gentile) will be saved.

Read any one before the 19th century before Darby/Scolfield

Wesley's Notes for Romans 11:26


11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved - Being convinced by the coming of the gentiles. But there will be a still larger harvest among the gentiles, when all Israel is come in. The deliverer shall come - Yea, the deliverer is come; but not the full fruit of his coming.



The fact that only a remnant are saved – is a fact which Paul said would remain even until the close of the present age – but some people take the word “until” in verse 25 – to mean that a part of Israel will only remain blinded until – and after – the full number of the gentiles have come in, then the whole of Israel will be saved.

However, Paul said – inverse 26: And so all Israel will be saved,… which means: – and “so – in this manner”, i.e. through the gospel of Jesus Christ which he has been expounding from chapter 1, the all of the redeemed Israel of God, will be saved – for there is no other way for men to be saved.

To this day, the Rabbis teach that: “all Israel have a part in the world to come” – in other words that all Jews will be justified through their having been born to the chosen nation, however, Paul has already clarified (in chapter 9 verse 6) – that that the redeemed and faithful Israel of God is not inclusive of all who are descended from Israel.

It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
http://www.messianicgoodnews.org/romans-chapter-eleven/

 2015/10/11 21:28
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
staff wrote:
I'd be interested to know if anyone really believed that the falling away would be small in numbers?(in particular anyone who pointed out rightly it didnt say "great".)



"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, displaying himself as being God."

I believe in two "falling aways." The final falling away will occur. There is also another falling away and this one is in a person's life. I experienced this and that's why I believe it's on a micro level as well as will be on a macro (society) level. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, etc for 20 years and I fell away (backslid) for almost 5 years. The man of sin had to be revealed in my life for me to be where I am in the Lord now. The Lord, in His mercy, showed me that I had to make a decision to return to Him or keep going the way I was going. I returned to Him.

I was a prideful Christian those 20 years before. The lust, the religiousness, the selfishness, the self-righteousness, the crookedness in my life HAD to be revealed. I don't know why every christian doesn't have to walk down that particular path but I thank my God He led me down it, and kept me in it and spoke to me to lead me out of it but I can't deny it happened.

THERE WILL BE A FALLING AWAY that the hearts of men and women will be revealed. The heart is desperately wicked, who can know it? The Lord knows it and He will reveal it. It doesn't say they'll all fall away and go to hell. There will be those who have ears to hear and return before it's too late. That is the mercy of our God!

God bless and feel free to disagree!!
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2015/10/11 21:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by staff on 2015/10/11 19:06:20

Hi All,
I'd be interested to know if anyone really believed that the falling away would be small in numbers?(in particular anyone who pointed out rightly it didnt say "great".)
I doubt it very much....because if it isnt small and its true believers well it cant happen anytime too soon unless of course their is huge harvest first
Yours Staff



I have a question: Does anyone think the "falling away" would have been mentioned in the same context as the "man of sin", "son of perdition", if it was insignificant?

As many fall away, will not many give their lives for Christ? Historically, during times of great martyrdom many came to the Lord.

 2015/10/11 22:36









 Re:

Quote:
by Lysa on 2015/10/11 21:43:24
I believe in two "falling aways." The final falling away will occur. There is also another falling away and this one is in a person's life. I experienced this and that's why I believe it's on a micro level as well as will be on a macro (society) level. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, etc for 20 years and I fell away (backslid) for almost 5 years. The man of sin had to be revealed in my life for me to be where I am in the Lord now. The Lord, in His mercy, showed me that I had to make a decision to return to Him or keep going the way I was going. I returned to Him.

I was a prideful Christian those 20 years before. The lust, the religiousness, the selfishness, the self-righteousness, the crookedness in my life HAD to be revealed. I don't know why every christian doesn't have to walk down that particular path but I thank my God He led me down it, and kept me in it and spoke to me to lead me out of it but I can't deny it happened.

THERE WILL BE A FALLING AWAY that the hearts of men and women will be revealed. The heart is desperately wicked, who can know it? The Lord knows it and He will reveal it. It doesn't say they'll all fall away and go to hell. There will be those who have ears to hear and return before it's too late. That is the mercy of our God!



It is the mercy of God, Lysa and it is scriptural.

Hag 2:5 According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not.
Hag 2:6 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;

You were the "dry land", and God had to shake everything from your life that was not of Him.

It has happened to many of us.

It is so that His glory will be manifest in your life.

Hag 2:9 The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts

Paul was thinking of Haggai when he wrote this:

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 2015/10/11 22:43
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: /// but some people take the word “until” in verse 25 – to mean that a part of Israel will only remain blinded until – and after – the full number of the gentiles have come in, then the whole of Israel will be saved.///


That view as well as the pretrib rapture view seems to have become popularized by the Plymouth Brethren movement in the early 19th century :

"The Powerscourt Conference

On October 4th, 1831, thirty-five clergymen and fifteen lay people gathered at the country estate of Lady Theodosia Powerscourt, in the small, Irish village of Enniskerry outside Dublin. All who assembled for the first Powerscourt Conference on Biblical prophecy were 'distressed at the condition of the Church', and 'convinced that the hope of Christ's return should figure more prominently in the thinking of Christians.'[1] Few could have imagined then how great an impact this, and subsequent Powerscourt Conferences would have on the wider Church.

The inspiration behind these conferences, which enabled the pioneers of the Plymouth Brethren movement to develop a more coherent understanding of prophecy, may have been Lady Theodosia's attendance at the first Albury Park Conference in Surrey, England, in 1826. There, thirty of the most eminent premillennialist scholars and clergymen of the day had gathered for the inaugural conference at the home of Henry Drummond to discuss 'the great prophetic questions which � most instantly concern Christendom'. These included 'the times of the Gentiles', 'the present and future condition of the Jews', and 'the future advent of the Lord.'[2] Five annual conferences were held in total, concluding in 1830. According to Drummond's account,

the majority of what was called the Religious World disbelieved that the Jews were to be restored to their own land, and that the Lord Jesus Christ was to return and reign in person on this earth.[3]"

http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/for-zions-sake-darby-and-christian-zionism#_ftn3

 2015/10/11 22:48Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Sister Lisa,
Great Post!
And Praise God for He is faithFULL!!!

Will He not forsake the 99 to go and save the 1 who strayed?

And for what it's worth, I agree that it's both and they are one in the same.


_________________
Fletcher

 2015/10/11 22:55Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

I have a question,...

Do any of you saints have insights into what the "strong delusion" sent by God that they should believe a lie is?

I of course have pondered this and one thing in particular seems to be a potential but I was wondering what you all came to?


_________________
Fletcher

 2015/10/11 23:00Profile





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