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murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | Quote: Is it acceptable to wear a headcovering and jeans?
What does the law say?
A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God. Deut 22:5
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Colin Murray
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 2015/7/15 5:39 | Profile |
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562
| | Re: | | Some of the Tertullian quotes which Greg shared are interesting, particularly the one where he quotes from 1 Corinthians 11 ("on account of the angels"). Nice to know that 1 Corinthians was pretty much considered to be canonical by 198 AD.
However, I feel uneasy about some of the things Tertullian says:
1. Tertullian shares his ideas about what constitutes a proper headcovering - he insists that the neck must be covered, and likewise the whole head. I've seen pictures of Amish and Mennonite headcoverings, which would definitely fail Tertullian's criteria.
2. Tertullian alludes to the heathen Arabian women of his era who were covered so thoroughly that they only had "one eye free" (this was 400+ years before the Islamic religion was created by Muhammad) .
He speaks of these women "enjoying rather half the light than to prostitute the entire face", and that the headcoverings sheltered women from romantic entanglements and thus rendering them more attractive.
These notions are totally absent from the New Testament. Paul writes of headcoverings being a symbol of authority, period. There is no biblical support for other concocted 'virtues' of headcoverings - e.g. preventing seduction, or sheltering people from romance or lust.
I wanted to highlight these two points - because it shows that when discussing this topic, the dangers of falling into legalism are very real. And in my reckoning, such legalism will do more damage than any lack of headcovering.
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| 2015/7/15 5:44 | Profile |
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562
| | Re: | | Quote:
Is it acceptable to wear a headcovering and jeans?
How do I overcome the pressures and headaches.
Hi carters,
It's pretty common for Muslim women to combine headcoverings with t-shirts and pants/jeans. I'm not sure how wise it is for Christian folk to take dressing cues from Muslims though! |
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| 2015/7/15 5:56 | Profile |
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: Caters | | Quote:
Is it acceptable to wear a headcovering and jeans?
Yes it is absolutely acceptable. You may find wearing jeans against the command in Deuteronomy 22. But Headcovering is a new covenant command but Deuteronomy 22 is old covenant. We do not follow the Old Covenant in word but in spirit. Hence the spirit behind the word is - A man shall not intentionally dress like a women or vice versa. It is the intentional fetish to dress like an opposite sex that is considered an abomination to God.
If we take this Deut 22:5 command literally then what will you advice men in India who wear Lungi that is a form of skirt. In China women were Pants as their traditional dress. Now are the men from India sinning or women from China sinning? The dress are all cultural things, what is mans dress in one culture might be a women dress in another culture. Hence we need to live by Spirit.
Quote:
How do I overcome the pressures and headaches.
Very simple, just pray that 'God I want to follow your simple command of head covering, I get headache when I cover my head, please heal me so that I can be obedient to you in everything'. If our prayers incline with God then he will certainly answer us. I have tested and proved it many times.
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Sreeram
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| 2015/7/15 5:59 | Profile |
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
There is no biblical support for other concocted 'virtues' of headcoverings - e.g. preventing seduction, or sheltering people from romance or lust.
There is a Biblical Support for Headcovering to prevent seduction. Apostle Paul asks women who do not cover their head to shave their head. Which means let her lose her beautiful hair if she does not want to cover it.
If you read 1 Cor 11 carefully, we can easily understand the intention of the spirit is to hide the beauty or glory of women which is her hair. In those days women used to braid their hair with gold, 1 Peter 3:3. Even now most women who frequent beauty clinics spend a lot on their hair. Hence to ask an women to cover their hair is to prevent unwanted attention by their glory which belongs to their husband and not for others to be distracted in Church.
One main reason for Headcovering to be thrown out by modern day women is they do not want to cover their hair that they spent too much to look glorious. The other reasons can be misinformed by fellow men who think themself to be more intelligent than God who gave the scripture.
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Sreeram
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| 2015/7/15 6:12 | Profile |
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562
| | Re: | | Quote:
There is a Biblical Support for Headcovering to prevent seduction. Apostle Paul asks women who do not cover their head to shave their head. Which means let her lose her beautiful hair if she does not want to cover it.
Hi Sree - I believe 1 Cor 11 pertains to a church worship context, so I do not see the chapter (including the verse on women shaving their heads) to have anything to do with preventing seduction. That goes beyond what is stated in Scripture.
You raise an interesting point about headcoverings: you believe that women should have their head covered at all times, while others believe that headcoverings only apply to a church assembly context. It's good to be clear on this point - what do others think?
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| 2015/7/15 6:23 | Profile |
Sree
Member
Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
Hi Sree - I believe 1 Cor 11 pertains to church meetings, so 1 Cor 11 (including the verse on women shaving their heads) has nothing to do with preventing seduction. That goes beyond what is stated in Scripture.
You are looking for exact word on seduction. Look at the spirit of what Apostle writes here. If glory of a women is not her beauty then what else can it be? Why should women cover her beauty in Church or Public prayer?
Headcovering can be seen in 2 ways,
1. Just take it as a pure sign to Angels and follow it.
2. Understand the spirit behind the word, which is to cover the beauty to prevent unwanted attention in public prayers.
Both are right. I incline towards point 1. Point 2 is the spirit behind the command. I have heard many reputed preachers supporting point 2. If you look at the reason for women to stop covering their head then it makes point 2 undeniable.
I do not believe in covering the head all the time. The entire 1 Cor 11 is written in the context of Church. But the need for all the time head covering comes because of the command, 'Pray all the time without ceasing'. But again that word only means that be in a prayerful spirit. Otherwise every second we spend in sleep we are disobeying this command.
To stand and pray in public or to be part of a public prayer is a different thing from being in a prayerful spirit.
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Sreeram
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| 2015/7/15 6:38 | Profile |
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562
| | Re: | | Quote:
You are looking for exact word on seduction. Look at the spirit of what Apostle writes here. If glory of a women is not her beauty then what else can it be? Why should women cover her beauty in Church or Public prayer?
...Understand the spirit behind the word, which is to cover the beauty to prevent unwanted attention in public prayers.
I read 1 Cor 11 again, and absolutely do not see Scriptural support for this view.
The glory of a woman's hair is compared to the glory of her wearing a headcovering in a church meeting. Paul does not write about women wearing a headcovering to hide the beauty of their hair and thus preventing unwanted attention or lust. That is a Muslim belief, not a Christian one.
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| 2015/7/15 6:45 | Profile |
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!
| | Re: | | Quote:
by Sree
Head covering and Submission are totally related to one another.
What I said was, "Submission and head coverings are not SYNONYMOUS." Yes, they are related but they are synonymous.
Synonymous means "having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word." Obviously, to you and your church they go hand in hand but outside the head covering movement, they are NOT synonymous.
And obedience and head coverings are not synonymous either! Many, many, many Christians outside your church and the head covering movement ARE obedient to God and submit to Him. It doesn't take a piece of cloth on a woman's head to prove any of this.
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Lisa
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| 2015/7/15 7:27 | Profile |
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!
| | Re: Head Coverings For Women In The Church? | | Quote:
ginnyrose wrote:
It is like Jesus told Peter, "what is that to thee, follow thou me." Instead of arguing about whether one should wear it why don't you just say, "I do not want to wear it, so there!" and be done with it. Why do you bother to debate it?
Such is the actions of human nature!! I tried to have that attitude through the first 7 pages then crazy statements were made about no new revelations because sisters don't wear head cloths!! OR that a sister has to be tested on her submission by the same piece of cloth!
Let's turn the tables here, shall we? If I started a thread that blatantly stated 'you are not filled with the Holy Spirit UNLESS you speak with tongues...' I would thoroughly expect it to be descended upon by every Christian that does not speak with tongues!
But I ask you ginny, why bother to debate it? Why not say, "I do not want to speak in tongues, so there! I don't believe what you are saying, so there!"
That's why I say, "such is the actions of human nature," my friend, ginny!!
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Lisa
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| 2015/7/15 7:33 | Profile |
