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Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 whether one member suffers

Hey guys

This is a good thread guys. I do have a general observation, although I suppose that the title of the thread answers the question, which is, why all the focus on the prophets? I realize that the point of the thread was specifically to discus prophets but, there is such an apathy in the entire body of Christ, supposing that the fruits and discipline of the Spirit is reserved only for prophets and people in authority. There is no office in the body of Christ that can single handedly bring revival or express the Bride of Christ. That which applies to the prophet applies to all the other priest (ye are a holy priesthood-1 Peter 2:25). It is not only the prophets who are “strange” in their devotion to good but we should all be “ Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:13-14)

Again, I believe that the prophet has been exalted beyond measure to the extent that many people who want to be serious about their service and devotion to God believes that they must be a prophet, this is just not so. The pastors, evangelists, teachers, ministers, exhorters etc all must be living the message they deliver, not just the prophets. It is easy to put pressure and requirement on the theoretical prophets but we all have a role to play in the body of Christ. A false exhorter is just as bad as a false prophet for, “whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.” (1 Corinthians 12:26)

James


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/5/2 23:01Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: From The Very Bottom of my Well ...



Brother Daryl you wrote:
"Br. R ...
I put his quote here to show something. No love. Out of the same mouth came blessing and cursing, prophets don't speak thus since they know the mysteries of the power of thier words".


Wow brother Daryl ...

Sounds like you've made your "self" both my judge and jury ... Thank God that Jesus is my lawyer lest you also become my executioner ... :-P


No brother Daryl you did not quote me to show that i have no "love", you quoted me because the statement was painful to your "self" and "self" always demands satisfaction ... My "self" jumped up the same way when i first read your initial post, and the above quote, but i asked Holy Spirit to help me tarry to the point of where He had preimmenence before i answered ... Actually none of us should have to be a prophet to know the power of words, or the meaning of true love in Christ ... You speak a lot about how someone else should love but didn't show "love" in your initial stinging "You've all missed the Mark" post ... So now in the spirit of agape and philos i'm gonna exhaust this ... If you go back and check my last post before the "are you a prophet" question you will see that i stated "i've said my piece" and had no intention of addressing you any further ... Then the question "hit me" so i restarted my computer and asked it ... i already knew you were gonna answer "No" ... Know why? ... Because anyone wrestling with the awful belief of calling of being a prophet of the Lord would know first hand it's painful anxieties, difficulties, questionings, anticipations and frustrations, and would not come across as harshly in accusation, demanding with all the CAPS and !!! marks of an ("Answer me!!!) as you did ... So when i posted ...

Quote:
"That's the thing that always puzzles me about God ... The ones like you who already know what "the calling" is supposed to be down to the "T" He bypasses ... But the ones who don't and most often don't even want to be called He chooses" ...

That wasn't "curses" on you brother that was scripture in fulfilment to me ... ""For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence" ... 1Cor.1:26-29 ...

It wasn't to far a stretch to think He calls the "unsure" to confound the "cocksure" ...

Now i know the above scripture is more in comparisson to saved and unsaved, but God does seem to do the same thing within His Body ... Again, you are "cocksure" as to what a "prophet" is and isn't tho you don't have the "calling" ... i on the other hand believe i have the "calling" and am never to sure of anything within the calling ... i do it all on faith ... My whole walk in this calling is a constant "leaning on" and daily "relying on" Him to assure me to go on in this faith of proclaiming repentance and all associated with it because i'm sure of nothing in this "calling" like i am of His written Word, my salvation, and Christ crucified and now sitting at the right hand of the Father with all power, that i'm most "sure" of ... But His personal "words" to me from over 20 years ago which i've stated on other threads, the most important that Revival is coming to my church, i'm not sure of, it certainly hasn't happened yet as have none of the other things i believe He's said to me ... Even the "unction" to go and say "thus saith the Lord" to my pastor i question ... Or His instruction of me just this past Sunday to send a copy of Os Guinneses "Prophetic Untimliness" (with "dictated" notes) to two pastors He's assigned me to i question, but on the "gift of faith" (that's the only explanation i have for continually doing past not being sure) i go and do it anyway ... Any strides that i've made in the past 20 years in this calling have been made in inches as opposed to leaps and bounds all because of my not being sure ... i'm constanly beseeching Him for assurance "Lord can you please just make one thing come to pass"? ... I'm constantly asking Him to not let me be delusional in acting upon what i believe i hear as His instructions, and if it is Him and not satan, or me, then please keep me strong to turn a deaf ear to so many detractors ... To me the real test of this office is to do in faith past my own unsureness, as i've not had any miraculous burning bushes, damp or dry fleeces, or shining heavenly visitors to make me "sure" ...

Now you on the other hand brother Daryl are sure, and all i said was that's why He didn't choose you to be a "prophet" because on this i am sure, that whatever it is that He has for us to do if it is to be done effectively, and to His glory, we must be weak in it that He may be strong ... We must be totally dependant on His definition and defining of us ... We must rely soley on Him to do thru us, and not us thru Him lest we get past Him in our own "self" assurance and possibly produce an Ishmael when He wants an Isaac via our total reliance on His assurance ... So it stands to scriptural reasoning that's why he has you in the calling of "street preacher" where as you said over on "NO POINT" you're not so sure of your "self" ... By the way i was moved by your testimony ...

Quote:
"I rember while preaching on the streets one night a man took a gun out put it to my head and tried to pull the trigger--- he shook with all his might as he tried to shoot me but couldn't. Was i scared? YES! My wife and children, my concern for them mainly. Afterwards I asked the Lord what would have happened if that man had killed me. I heard this and felt His presence, "well done thou good and faithful SERVANT enter into the joy of thy Lord". I'm not a bible teacher or scholar , I'm not very learned at all, but my hearts desire is to serve God and people any way I can. But most of the time I'm misunderstood. Only thing I want to hear when I leave earth is well done thou good and faithful servant".

Bro. Daryl i can totally empathize with you on your "hearts desire" and the "misunderstood" part, and do ... i've said on more than one occasion that if our Lord even said to me at my standing before Him, "Well done my good, and not always so faithful servant" i'd be more than willing to accept that because it would be the truth ... i've been unfaithful to Him on a number of occasions, sometimes big time, but He's never, ever been unfaithful to me ... i've got all kinds of quirks, idiocycracies and things that just scream out "unfit for ministry ... unfit for service ... unfit for heavenly use" and on many occasions i've been known to chime into that chorus with my own lips ... "Lord i can't do this" ... "Lord i'm not fit to do this" ... "Lord there's got to be someone more qualified to do this" ... But then i hear God saying, "Stop calling unusable that which I've washed in the Blood of My Son, and empowered by My own Holy Spirit to My Own good purpose" ...

You know when i first came on this SI Forum i was just like a fresh tapped oil well full of gush, now i sense in my spirit that i'm just about all tapped out this post feeling most draining ... Not much more to say here ... It dawned on me just the other day that all i believe is recorded as public record on this SI Forum and i thought to our Lord, "How will this fit into your plan"? ... For over 20 years now i believe that i have the prophetic calling ... When i first started out i foolishly thought the calling would bring "acceptance" but when it brought such scathing "rejection" that only escalated with each new "word", like Jonah i ran, and with a very bad attitude toward God and man ... You asked when was the last time i was in the belly of a whale, well not literally, but i can tell you what it's like to be in one spiritually, and like Jonah our Lord would not let me out till i cried "uncle" ... Since then He's brought me a mighty long way ...

Of the list of questions you posed in your initial thread i stand by my answers to them tho you deem them incorrect ... So i have nothing to lose in my answers of ponderance over your remaining query ...

Quote:
"Look to Abraham who interceded several times, and in more than one instance for individuals who had caused him great harm or loss. Look at Moses or even Paul who would have gone to an eternal hell if God would just spare Israel. Before one speaks the judgement of God on a church---society----city---or nation, are they ready to accept that judgement on themselves instead"?

To me prior to my calling "that judgment" you speak of (coming to the House of the Lord) was hanging over my head along with everyone elses anyway, i just didn't know it or my degree of contribution to it ... But after the calling is a whole different story, all of a sudden you see God's "pain" with yourself first then it's multiplied toward the greater "church---society----city---or nation" and it burdens you because it is His good pleasure to do so in making you a mouthpiece to His call to "repent" or else ... What i see of the prophets of old is that they not only had to endure the crapola of a stiffnecked rebellious house prior to the falling of God's chastisement, but also had to go thru it with the very hardheads whose disbelief of God's warning message thru them caused ... So bottom line brother Daryl is [b]we're all in this together ...[/b] That's something Holy Spirit told me a while back about the Body of Christ, and that even if we are chosen in a "ministry" calling to the Body, and may be walking just a little more pure and holy because of that "calling", never should we point/think outwardly with a condemnatory "you" (or in your case you've) or "they" within His Body, but always "WE" ... i asked Holy Spirit to ever convict me of this, that it's "WE" no matter what in that we're all members of one Body ... That's why i attempted to lightheartedly engage you with the comment ...

Quote:
"Shouldn't that have been[b] "we've" all missed the mark? ...[/b] But bless God for the indwelling power of Holy Spirit to press on anyhow! ... "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" ... Phil.3:13,14 ...

But i guess you came loaded for bear, and i got in the way as the bear ...

So if in fact by your estimation it's prerequisite that i be willing to take "the judgment" of the Church on myself in place of those offending God then brother Daryl i'm no prophet because i pray exactly otherwise, "Lord if it takes the falling of your terrible grace to turn your Church around then do it yesterday"! ... And if the proof necessary to the calling is that i'd be willing to go to hell for God to spare His Church the judgment we deserve for not heeding His warnings than i miserably fail again for hell is the one place i most desperately seek to stay out of ... Christ already came and paid the price to keep us all out of hell, and if any mans rebellious heart is sending him there then i for one will step aside and let him pay his own eternal price ... Brother Daryl you may in fact have such type of love but i'll tell you straight up ... "i don't" ...

You know what's funny is that i've endured all types of negativity in what i believe to be my calling since from around 1984 or so ... i tried to escape it physically once only to be unctioned right back to the same pastor/church into right where i'd left off ... Now again i find myself desiring to escape, this time mentally, by telling God that i just don't have anymore faith past this year of 2005 to go any further in these i call my "personal" beliefs ... i even have a bulletin board in my kitchen with a heading directed at God entitles "2005 - Increase or Release", meaning "Come on God i can't keep this up any longer, i'm not getting any younger ... Either do what i believe i've heard You say You're gonna do or prove me delusional so i can get disconnected from this thing" ... i've been diligently seeking Him lately to PLEASE!!! make things clearer to me, then Holy Spirit in His usual style feeds me something just enough to not make me as totally sure as say His finally providing me a publisher for "The Called", or my pastor and his ministerial staff on their faces praying for Revival and the calling of a solemn assembly of the entire congregation towards the same, the actual Revival itself, my being made His spokesman to His Church first and then to the nations, or a ministry that when it takes off will take a multitude with it, no not anything as assuring as any of these things i believe i've heard Him say to me so long ago, but He directs me to get Os Guinesse's book "Prophetic Untimeliness" where He lays out an entirely different definition of the calling than your own ... In it He says that the three most outstanding cost of the office of a "true" prophet is ...

- An awful sense of "maladjustment" within a oblivious status quo ...

- An awful sense of "impatience" towards the vision(s) He's given you that screams, "How long O Lord"? ...

- And an awful sense of "failure" ...

The latter is what i'm dealing with now and have to constantly overcome the most when i slip down from my spirit into my humanity, and it's the latter that makes me dare to attempt my veiled "ultimatum" to God ... But He, thru this book even addressed that ...

[b]Quote from the book under the chapter:
"The Price of Faithfulness"[/b]

"We cannot define our own achievements or success ... Being human, just as we want to bring forward the vision rather than continue to hope and trust, so we want to know if we have really succeeded rather than wait for God's "Well done".

How do we each react when we find that our noblest dreams and most profound strivings are staring in the face failure? [b]Never for one moment must we allow ourselves an excuse to ease up in pursuing God's call.[/b] Not for a second can we think of taking the bitter pill of apparent failure and sugarcoating it with rationalizations about the difficult times in which we live.[b]God knew the times in which He called us to live, and He alone knows the outcome of our times as He knows the outcome of our lives and work" ...[/b]

Hmmmm ... Now is this God answering my feeble ultimatum ... My humanity says, "Well maybe ... could just be coincidence", but my spirit says, "Well it don't get much plainer than that, there you go again concerning yourself with what doesn't concern you mainly because you're tired of waiting, and tired of being a misfit" ... Then that "gift of faith" kicks in and says "Keep pushing ... keep believing" ... Inch worm ... Inch worm ... But as my Dad used to say concerning the avoidance of an accident, "An "inch" is as good as a mile" ... "Precious Lord take my hand, lead me on, make me stand" ...

i think arm chair quarter-backing is so easy to do, but to actually be in the game taking invisible play instructions from your Invisible Head Coach against an invisible opponent that appears to be slightly ahead at the two minute warning, well that's the gut tightening real deal ... Brother Guinesse says that we really mess up when we cease our sole focus on the audience of One (meaning God Himself) as to only requiring His assuredness as to who and what we are in and to Him ... i'm certainly guilty of this at times in being rattled by what i percieve as such rampant negativity toward my calling from others, but most guilty in the inclusion of my own "self" negativity toward the same ... Guess that's all part of taking up my cross and walking with it huh? ...

Slllllllllllrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuup!!! ... Hmmmm ... what's that sound? ... It's the sound of brother Rahman's well drained totally dry of this subject of the "prophet" ... And of this i'm most glad ...

God and time proves or disproves all ... :beard:

In the love of Christ ...

Br. R

 2005/5/3 15:27Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
It is important also that we be able to distinguish among ourselves which believer does what so that when comes a time for the body to call upon that believer's office then we can say,

We have been led astray by the KJV! there is no such thing as the 'office' of a prophet.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/3 17:56Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Please explain Philologos. Thank you brother.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/5/3 18:01Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 "Picture of a Prophet" by L. Ravenhill

May I interupt here? Why not check out this article, "Picture of a Prophet" by L. Ravenhill?

http://www.ravenhill.org/prophet.htm

I suspect many discount the role of the prophet simply because it doesn't fit into our perception of 'spiritual leader' Also, the prophet's message is not what we want to hear. Wasn't it that way in biblical times - esp when Israel has strayed from God? None of the prophets were popular, highly regarded, or accepted by the religious establishment (unless, of course, they were false prophets - eager to tickle ears.

The place of the prophet is on the bottom - not the top of the rung. The prophet suffers for the church, faces a lot of rejection, and is even willing to die for the church. Prophets carry the burden of the Lord - and are divinely called to transmit it to the people - as led by the Spirit.

Isn't that what we need today?

I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a prophet, unless the calling is a burning passion placed upon them by God himself.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/5/3 19:40Profile









 Re: "Picture of a Prophet" by L. Ravenhill

Hey there Dianne,
Welcome to SI. I'm absolutely delighted you made it. For those of you who don't know Dianne, we are all blessed that she is here. She writes with a great anointing, as you will see over the next few months. \

Again, welcome sis. God bless you real good.

 2005/5/3 21:12
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

Quote:
. Because anyone wrestling with the awful belief of calling of being a prophet of the Lord would know first hand it's painful anxieties, difficulties, questionings, anticipations and frustrations



Brother Rahman

That is so true. No one wants to hear anything you have to say neither do they believe you. It is really difficult and there are messages that I have had to deliver against my own will… When you say that you have a prophetic word, people act as if you have claimed to be Elijah reincarnated…it is a painful isolation. The modern church does not make it easy to be a prophet nor do they sympathize with the anxious young prophet. The doubt and suspicion (external) with which you are compassed about with is phenomenal and saddening.

James


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/5/3 22:24Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
We have been led astray by the KJV! there is no such thing as the 'office' of a prophet.



are you saying that there are no more prophets or that being a prophet is not called an office but rather a responsibility in the kingdom of God? I'm unsure what exactly you are getting at.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/5/3 22:25Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: "Picture of a Prophet" by L. Ravenhill

Welcome sis. In acts11:28 and acts 21:10-11 we see at least 2 functions of a prophet in the NT church. Neither of which we would associate with that of individuals we would call prophets in our "today" use of the term. While I believe in the prophetic giftings and even individuals that are prophets within the church of Jesus Christ, I however see a great deal of misuse in this area. On the one hand we have thoughs who are modeled after thier taught preception of what a prophet is and that usually based on the OT models and on the other hand we have thoughs in the NT who seemed to have unusual giftings and we lump them in as a prophet or prophetess. In 1 Cor 14 we have the government of the modern prophet with in the church note verse 37. Basically we have people trying to be OT prophets in a NT environment and that's out of order. There is a sense that in the same way we are all priest unto our God we like wise are all prophets in this world. But within the church of Jesus Christ?....Thats a different matter all together, the approach is completely different. Interested in hear what ya think. God Bless---Bro. Daryl


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D.Miller

 2005/5/3 22:31Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: "Picture of a Prophet" by L. Ravenhill

Ms Diane
Thank you so much for that. God has told me this serveral times. Mockery and laughter would come first but then when things get to happenning, prophets of judgement (and probably all prophets)shall become hated among men. There was no prophet who ever had a nice prosperity message to give to the people. Most of them died brutally, if the trend holds (and it probably will) then a lot of prophets will die by the hand of the antichrist.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/5/3 22:45Profile





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