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Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Prophetic Credentials.....



Brother James wrote;
"I am always encouraged by you Brother Lahry".


Me too! ... :-D

 2005/5/5 11:51Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

A true prophet will speak of these things that Christ is doing in this world. He will preach of the glory that is in Christ and lift up those who are seeking Him. He will preach about the rod of Christ for those who reject Him. Listen to the work of Christ in all generations.

Is. 63:1 Who is this who comes from Edom,
With dyed garments from Bozrah,
This One who is glorious in His apparel,
Traveling in the greatness of His strength?—
“I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save.”
2 Why is Your apparel red,
And Your garments like one who treads in the winepress?
3 “I have trodden the winepress alone,
And from the peoples no one was with Me.
For I have trodden them in My anger,
And trampled them in My fury;
Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments,
And I have stained all My robes.
4 For the day of vengeance is in My heart,
And the year of My redeemed has come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
And I wondered
That there was no one to uphold;
Therefore My own arm brought salvation for Me;
And My own fury, it sustained Me.
6 I have trodden down the peoples in My anger,
Made them drunk in My fury,
And brought down their strength to the earth.”
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD
And the praises of the LORD,
According to all that the LORD has bestowed on us,
And the great goodness toward the house of Israel,
Which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies,
According to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses.
8 For He said, “Surely they are My people,
Children who will not lie.”
So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.
10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;
So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
And He fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
12 Who led them by the right hand of Moses,
With His glorious arm,
Dividing the water before them
To make for Himself an everlasting name,
13 Who led them through the deep,
As a horse in the wilderness,
That they might not stumble?”
14 As a beast goes down into the valley,
And the Spirit of the LORD causes him to rest,
So You lead Your people,
To make Yourself a glorious name.

He will lead His people and give them rest. He will cause the beast to be thrown into the lake of fire. As one abides in Christ one will also have the mind of Christ.

We are all called to be priests. The function of the priest in the OT was to hear the words of God and then minister to the people. But like then so it is now. We have become dull of hearing.

Heb. 5:6 As He also says in another place:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”;
7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become DULL of HEARING.

Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/5 13:04Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I try hard not to offend my brothers and sisters however I feel that sometimes I do, I'm pretty abrasive at times and don't mean to be. I think its my writing style because my spoken words are very different than that of what I can type. But there were several things you said that I had to take and ask God to help me change because without you knowing it they brought a sense of conviction that I had to deal with. The wounds of a friend(brother) are faithful. God Bless, thank you for your prayers. Bro. Daryl


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/5/5 20:51Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

This thread has moved at the speed of light, I mean wow, when I last checked there weren't as many posts. It seems this topic is a touchy one. At the root of it all I feel that many of us are still trying to figure out what role God has for us in His kingdom. We all do have our regular Christian duties to do but God expects more of us. Those things are good but we also need to think about works which will abide the fire, works born of the spirit. I must say that now that God has revealed to me my purpose in this life, everything I do makes sense. Everything that has been God has used to bring me to this point that He may be glorified. I pray that we all realize our calling and not only that but take hold of it and RUN with it as far as GOd would have us go.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/5/5 22:52Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Rambling 'prophet'

Hi James,

Had to detach from all this for awhile to give it more thought, but briefly to answer this question:

Quote:
Think 'outcome' not 'references'


Stemmed from what came before it from Aaron:
Quote:
To me, a prophet is one who understands mysteries, and is able to proclaim them. He is one who can understand the language of angels (what God is saying in heaven. ie, mysteries), and equally the language of men, thereby able to proficiently communicate these mysteries, so that those with ears to hear, can understand. Not only can the prophet understand and proclaim these mysteries effectively, he has faith with which he can move mountains (affect change in seemingly impossible situations). The prophet willing pours out his life for the words sake, not witholding possessions, or even his own blood, if necessary.


And your reply:
Quote:
We (every Christians) can do nothing of ourselves and apart from the vine we will never “build up” these virtues until we are “worthy” of Him. The prophet is just a man Brother Aaron, and God chooses whom He will. The Lord did not choose me (sorry it’s unavoidable in this case) to be a prophet because I had “extraordinary love” or because I am “one who understands mysteries”. I cannot even claim that the Lord chose me for humility, for I was full of arrogance and self. The Lord in His sovereignty, did what He wanted to do.



So the thought was toward 'credentials' being something after the fact not as anything one would bring to the table. Aaron wasn't stating anything of 'qualifications', filthy rags are still filthy rags and you obviously realize that by your response.

Pretty well tapped out on all this and likely have gone overboard with the cautions. It stems outward from all that was said before, from observance of what has been going on in our time and personal experience both from contact with this 'style' if you will, but also inwardly, finding that an awful lot of things I think the Lord is or may be communicating to the inner man on later reflection find were generated from somewhere else. Or, perhaps that I just misunderstood and was to hasty to go 'proclaim' it before I even understood it.

Have mentioned it before but, "seems" is a safeguard not of unbelief, but as a buttress to the things the flesh can generate, the devil can manipulate and even the world can postulate. (now I am trying to be poetic...). Not to build a doctrine around a section of verses but these come to mind;
Act 15:25 It [b]seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord[/b], to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it [b]seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us,[/b] to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Jam 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Jam 4:14 Whereas [b]ye know not what shall be on the morrow.[/b] For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Jam 4:15 [b]For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.[/b]
Jam 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

Not attempting to make these say anything not meant, but to again bring in that sense of caution... [i][b]in general[/b][/i]. Think of all the warnings in scripture when it comes to these things. "Beware" "Be sober" "On your guard" "Watch out for" "Test" over and over again.

It still keeps coming back to definitions. The 'forth-telling' and the 'telling forth'. Take someone like Art Katz, is he a 'prophet'? Some would say yes, without a doubt, others no and still some might say.... well, it depends. I would be of the later sort. Does he speak 'prophetically'? I think so when it comes to many area's of spiritual truth, that cutting to the core of things, being [i]completely[/i] honest with ourselves, this is not a man dealing with mere trifles, he is blessed in bringing out some things that could be construed more like what Mike Tyson did to Evander Holyfield than the tickling that goes on anymore in our day. But as to his eschatology and 'predictions', surely he is convinced that they will play out in that manner and frankly am not studied well enough to give any opinion one way or the other, it is well enough to hold it in abeyance without discounting the former. At the same time being that the question was raised here towards 'credentials' does he not have some in this regard? One that I am not sure got touched on here is character and there is no disputing that with him, it comes through in his messages and as some can attest to having some contact with the man, [i]Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile![/i] And am fairly sure that if one was to approach him only on the basis of believing that because he does have some character and therefore is a 'prophet' without really delving into all these things, being of a Berean mindset and testing what he says and believes he would see right through you and send you packing with your tail between your legs.

Another example would be David Wilkerson. Without rehashing all that has come before, my recollection is muddy but believe that he has in his long fruitful service has both made mistakes and made amends as well as been misunderstood in this whole realm. The times when he has said "I think" this is what the Lord is saying or "I believe the Lord is telling me..." that such an such is on the horizon carries far more weight because it is just being honest about it, it is placing the doubt where it belongs, on ones self, not on the possibilities of God.

There is an awful lot more that could be said here. There is much to the thought of whether or not these particular 'gifts' are even in operation today or in just what they are construed to be by many to [i]mean[/i]. Frankly I just don't know, nor do I feel compelled to have to come to any conclusion one way or the other. It's almost funny because it works in the same way as the ones that feel they have this particular 'gifting'. This outside force that wants to put you into it's mold of "You must decide, your wishy-washy, your sitting on the fence" and to that I would say. "Yep" What of it? That's not pride (I hope):-D But that it is not necessary to force a conclusion and then let that be the standard to let everything be judged by, a whittling away of something I am holding to. We can be absolutely convinced about many things only to find given enough time, that we are just flat out wrong, if we are honest enough about it.

It could be likened to how we approach even scriptures themselves. Believe it was Zac Poonen that made the comment of coming to the Bible everyday with the idea in mind of forgetting everything we think we know about it and letting it speak to us as if for the very first time, and have married into that idea because it takes the wind out of you and forces one to see things from a different perspective every time, leaving our presumptions behind. Certainly it is an imperfect science and there is some sanctified stretching here, the intent not meaning to throw away everything you have learned nor to take ones brain out to the trash can, but a willingness to lay down everything including our sanctified thought, making [b]it[/b] subject to Gods Word.

Will bow out of this long winded essay with a couple of things. I also realize the true expression that we believers are trying to form into mere words and that struggle within to force them out into intelligent thought. As I told our dear friend and brother Rahman who I love dearly, "I believe [i][b]you[/b][/i]" and just as well the same could be said for the Sons of Thunder here. And by that what I mean is that I do not find anything mischievous, deceitful or that the things that you all believe the Lord is telling you are flat out wrong, false or otherwise and at the same time nor do I believe that a lot of these utterances being couched in the 'prophetic' language are always 'prophetic'. A lot of the times the same things are being said by others and the hunch is that it is just the normative workings of the Holy Spirit amongst believers, that sense of what Paul stated:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, [b]that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment[/b].

You all have a passion for the Lord that is evident. You all are brethren here, the Holy Spirit dwells within you as in us, none of that is in dispute. What is [i]said[/i] often times... well, that's what we are dealing with here and I think that was the whole intention of what is meant by how and what we are to judge when it comes to each other.

So the generalities, the cautions, the warnings all of it meant with the intention and keeping in mind to the greater audience here. How many unknowns out there peering in on these things? Some that are caught up in much of this 'prophetic' business as many of us once were? Reading these things, could there be unbelievers out there cruising through here? I certainly hope so and no we need not be concerned with what they think of us, but of God and Jesus Christ, His Son, we are but His witness, that we might always be concerned of that first and foremost.

And so the caution.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/5/6 10:02Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Prophetic Credentials.....


Brother Ironman you wrote:
"At the root of it all I feel that many of us are still trying to figure out what role God has for us in His kingdom" ...

Hallelujah ... In the midst of so much complacency i can just see our Lord smilling about us ALL being so pointed in this diligent seeking of Him, His Kingdom, and His righteousness, and His place for us in the workings ... Not a pat on the back for this is but our reasonable service, but just the thought of bringing a smile to our Father and Saviour is such a good thought ...

i wish that so many of the recent SI Forum detractors could see (as this thread attests) what Holy Spirit is capable of accomplishing when we allow Him to operate us in His true Spirit of Christian love and brotherhood ... This thread is working in the spirit realm and in each participants spirit in ways that we don't even realize yet ... As i dare say much of SI has and does ... God bless US ALL, and may He continue to bless SI ... Amen

 2005/5/6 11:27Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Prophetic Credentials.....




Fellow saints ...

You might find this interesting ...

#2 - This Is Exactly How i Feel SI! ...
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5526&forum=35

Some excerpts from Os Guinness's book "Prophetic Untimeliness" ... Man what a powerful little book!

 2005/5/6 14:52Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Rambling 'prophet'

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
So the thought was toward 'credentials' being something after the fact not as anything one would bring to the table. Aaron wasn't stating anything of 'qualifications', filthy rags are still filthy rags and you obviously realize that by your response.



Thank you Mike, you saved me the trouble of replying. I've always felt that we seem to be on similar pages (especially, when one considers our average amount of pages per post :-P). Having said that, I wish to add one thought.

Jim,

I'd appreciate that you reread my post that sparked Mikes comments. I'm in no way trying to assert that a prophet is "perfect" in his conduct, more that he is perfect in his acknowledgement of his own inadequacy. The reality is, most theologians place each of the "five fold ministries" (remembering that the passage in Ephesians is about people, not job descriptions) fit under the categorie of eldership in the church. The idea being, not all elders are "five fold ministers", but that all "five fold ministers" are elders.

If this is the case, then the qualifications ofor elders/bishops in 1 Timothy and Titus apply. It isn't a matter of God choising any old person to be a prophet, and then allowing any kind of conduct, while still endorsing him, but that he has a higher expectation from him, as one "to whom much is given, much is expected." I say this in brokeness (I wish I were speaking, as it would be more evident), and out of concern. There appears to be a flippant kind of, "Well all I know is, that I'm a prophet, and who am I to argue."

The one who God has entrusted with mysteries (not implying that the prophet knows "all mysteries" that there are to know) walks the earth in near terror, at the gravity of the responsability that God has given him. Listen to a man like Katz (who I believe is the clearest example of a prophet, in our time, and a stark contrast to the bulk of 'false prophets' out there), and you'll see what I mean. He'll, at one minute insist that it is possible to be 'perfect', then humbly admit that he isn't. He'll speak of times when he has been in the perfect will of God, then of times of near depravity. All the while not compromising his message, even when it means that the cross hairs will be directed toward his own life.

Where talking about "Prophetic Credentials" here, however I would level a claim of being romantic toward my accuser of the same, due to an apparent ignorance to the existance of such a thing. Pleas hear me the right way, I don't mean this in anyway judgmentally, simply to state a fact, which I have been saying all along, with increasing bluntness. I am trying to not be offensive (note, I have already admitted to not having a "prophetic calling"). Please forgive me for not being this plain to begin with, I'm still learning where the line is, and when to cross it. Perhaps this, even, is not the right time.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2005/5/8 9:04Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Reading between the lines

:-P Thanks Aaron, it is funny sometimes. The amount of words that it can take to [i]try[/i] and express things that are of an inward nature, think that is why the tendencies to latch on to certain saints of the past (and even the present) that can articulate that [i]leap in the womb[/i] experience so much better, so much more articulately, we mere amateur scribes...

Though feeling much exhausted by all the run on sentences and peculiar sense of being on guard dog duty towards all this, it did leave the residue of thought that perhaps not an semi-automatic but a Shepperd's crook might be a better use of 'weapons'.

It caused some reflection on application towards many other area's of 'sorting through' matters of faith and trust, the inward promptings from the Holy Spirit and that whole twisted devil inspired concept of 'either/or' thinking.

The breakdown is in a fear of planting doubt, when caution is the intent. The tendencies to 'latch' onto a series of comments and make that [i]ipso-facto[/i] [i]"oh, then you are saying...then you believe that...or, you don't believe then that..."[/i]so on and so on as it applies to 'gifts','prophecies','prophets',
'speaking in tongues' etc. To be honest at the core means to reflect on all of it and it's truly a wonder and a great thing that happens here amongst ourselves. For me the things that I can carry away from here, that reside in my thinking for days on end, all sparked from the sharing of our thoughts, experience and even those clever devils themselves...[i]opinions[/i]! 8-)

To the point, the questions raised are;
Am I back-peddling?
And if so, do I now squirm out of it?
Did I mean what I said?
Did I say what I meant?

Quote:
Listen to a man like Katz (who I believe is the clearest example of a prophet, in our time, and a stark contrast to the bulk of 'false prophets' out there), and you'll see what I mean. He'll, at one minute insist that it is possible to be 'perfect', then humbly admit that he isn't. He'll speak of times when he has been in the perfect will of God, then of times of near depravity. All the while not compromising his message, even when it means that the cross hairs will be directed toward his own life.


Inserted that here as it seems to sum up my own sentiments so well. The lines of thought that have been implanted from that dear man, the snippets of comments... "Who is worthy of such things...?" "I stutter and stammer and gasp at my God", a bit of paraphrasing there but in effect it is just more of that paradoxical effect of that which you made analogy to: To carry a sense of uncertainty in the message bearer, but have none towards the God that beckons us onwards.

So to make a long story short :-P ... I did get much out of this whole thing, it gave pause to that which is of faith stemming from and in the inward parts and that which has been leavened with the contamination of the fallen head syndrome. Pity the poor scribe just a moment longer.

It may seem backward but this reduction business is becoming more and more wonderful everyday. I believe more now than ever before but in such a completely different way. My assurance that God will do just as He well pleases to do is becoming so apparent that the circumstances being leveled of such an insane sort that I would have to be un-born-again to fully apprehend the absurdity of it all. There is enough residue left to see it in a natural way and even ponder for just a sinister moment the thought [i]if the Lord had not changed this crooked disposition[/i] I know I would have left all of this 'life' and gone back to my wallowing in the mud in a season of sin. But the blessed hope and ability now to see it for what it is, a lie dressed up in shining clothes... "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" (Rom 11:33)

A little sideways there but as it applies to all this business of prophets and prophecies, the stickler poking me in the side is;

1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesying.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Well, #3 in order here have beaten into the ground. #2, is the goad, and #1 my 'worry'.

For all those here that feel this is there calling, their compulsion or compelling the hope is that all of us might take all three here and hold them in that sense of trinitarian doctrine that we hold to, not three 'separate' but one whole.

Forgive my undue grief that may have been caused. I had to look honestly at some of the things I had said here to see where the training wheels had fallen off. I most certainly believe the Lord still speaks to us in an inward way by the Holy Spirit and still think a lot of things get mangled in the broken cisterns of our minds and can come out causing all kinds of bells and whistles and alarms to go off.

What the Lord is telling us as individuals and what He may be communicating to the saints
'corporately' through us is where maybe we ought to be more prayerful about, not that we don't share, but that we don't put an explanation point where a question mark goes. The things of the Lord that are mysterious to us, the wonder of a certain scripture verse jumping up and grabbing us with a different 'revelation' as it where, meaning perspective, though we have read it a thousand times... It goes back to the three fold 'test' there in 1Th 5. A little example that came again in my recent reading of Mr. Tozer's life was this phrase; "[i]thinking Gods thoughts after Him[/i]" There is an old post around here to this, but the recollection was of very early on in this walk that line 'popped' into my head seemingly out of 'nowhere'. In fact it so gripped me, that I remember getting home from work and just digging through my bible and every version of the scriptures I could find trying to figure out where this came from, it just had to be in there. The way it came to me was in a slight twist "[i]thinking My thoughts after Me[/i]" as if the Lord was talking directly to me, but it just wasn't in there and I was puzzled, did I read it somewhere else? Did I hear it on the radio and it got subconsciously absorbed? Or did the Lord sovereignly 'place' it or 'speak it' directly to me? It wasn't until a few years later that the source of it came about, that I have forgotten now, (some blessed dead saint) but for the life of me how it got there, in my head will remain a mystery.

But thank God for it, it is all that matters and I am glad it got in there, it is all that I strive after.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/5/8 11:23Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 False prophets...

Brothers Aaron and Mike

First of all, please forgive the long absence, I have bee out of town and I have only just returned to reflect once again on this matter. It is obviously an important matter and I am quite impressed with how things have developed so far. Upon reflection we actually agree more than we disagree but tragically I think it is hard for you to really understand what I am saying because you have such powerful minds! I must be exceedingly accurate with you gentlemen because a little generalization on my part can throw off the whole topic. I have read and re-read what you have written and I believe I understand what you are saying.

I think where you have thrown me off from the start, is with the word “credentials”, a word that is synonymous to a job application. This is the main thrust off my objection Brothers. Perhaps a more appropriate heading would have been, “attributes of a mature prophet”. As with any calling there is an induction stage before you finally reach your stride in Christ. Sadly some prophets do not make it out of this induction stage, but this does not (according to my judgment) disqualify them from being what they have been called to be. (For [b]the gifts and calling[/b] of God are without repentance. Roman 11:29).

Let me illustrate this point with a simplified example. Say you are hired to be a hospital porter. You are not going to be very useful to the hospital until you have learnt your way around the hospital. You are still in training but if someone asks you what you do, you will simply reply, “I am a porter”. You do not state that you are training to be a porter, because you have already been hired and you are in fact a porter, yet you are becoming more and more efficient at your job. Of course at the hospital if you do not improve, they will simply fire you, but this is not the way of the Lord. The Lord has reserved a day in the which all the secretes of men will be revealed and judged and everyone will have to give an account of their stewardship. Indeed, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” (Mathew 7:22)

You may believe that if a prophet does not mature that of necessity makes him a “false prophet”. I see the logic behind your statement but it is only a skin deep assessment, one that judges according to the wisdom of men and not of God. Now, please understand, I do not in any way believe that we should follow after immature prophets, this is not my point at all but I do insist that to refer to them as “false” is an error. Compare King David and King Saul. David recognized that Saul was not functioning as he should have but, who was he to judge another Person’s (God) servant? There is a judgment that recognizes error and fault, to which we are exhorted (Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?-1 Cor3:6) and there is another judgment that, having recognized error and fault, passes sentence (For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again Matt 7:2). We do not have that authority dear saint. David cannot simply declare that Saul is no longer the King, until the hand of the Lord has removed him.

To accuse one of being a false prophet is a very serious accusation and should not be made lightly dear saints. A false prophet is not chosen by God, but by Satan, and is actively and consciously leading people away from Jesus Christ. Please note that there are some bad (as in immature) prophets and bad teachers, but this does not necessarily make them ‘false”. These, who teach wrong doctrine not out of deceit and greed but, out of immaturity I believe are refered to in by the Lord when He says, “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Mathew 5:19). Note that these poor teachers are still in fact “in the kingdom of heaven”. This is perhaps the best “story” of a “false prophet” in the New Testament:

“ And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus: Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?” (Acts 13:6-10)”

Notice the intensity with which Paul speaks against this man…this is not just a case of pastor misunderstanding the significance of the Lord supper (that is a poor/bad teacher), this is outright antagonism to the works of God. You cannot admonish a Brother (one born of the Spirit), no matter how immature they are using these words. This does not mean that you cannot admonish him, but the approach is altogether different. Are we in agreement so far before I proceed t my next point?

James


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/5/9 10:15Profile





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