I don't have children or a wife. It is just me. So I don't have to concern myself with what you are saying, RDG; however, I would pray if the Lord wanted me to have your attitude in the first place. If so, then do so. If not, then be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

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i am sorry i don't understand what you meant by this last part?

i didn't say people shouldn't help others, i asked what you thought about the situation.

i am only asking questions, i have heard many differing opinions from those very near the issue so i wondered what others might be thinking. that is why i asked.

rdg

I should have paid more attention. I am sorry for saying that it was your attitude.

The attitude that I am referring to is "I can't help them because it is illegal and I don't want my family to suffer because of them."

I have edited my post and posted a note to reflect the changes. I will try to watch what I am saying better and not redirect my frustrations I have in talking with others around this area toward yall.

A question we could ask ourselves is this. Were we criminals when we came to Jesus? Meaning, were we sinners, were we guilty? Did we have to go away and make ourselves acceptable and then come back to Jesus or, while we were yet in our sins, guilty of the the most henious crime, having the blood of Jesus on our hands so to speak, did Jesus accept us or turn us away? It may not be the answer to the problems on the border but it certainly keeps us humble and banishes judgement from our hearts. Let the people of the world scream and shout and hold placards and worry about taxes, but let us be found ministering to the least amongst us...........bro Frank

N. Koreans who make it to the border with China cross over to find freedom and food. Often they find Christ through Chinese Christians who help them.

It is against the law for Chinese Christians to help those fleeing the tyrany of N. Korea. But they do it out of love for Christ knowing they face imprisonment.

So does this make them criminals? Also because those in N. Korea flee tyrany and enter China illegally are they criminals?

Somehow it all seems relative against the higher law of love found in Jesus.

My thoughts.

Blaine

Is a person who remains in this country illegally sinning based on their presence here?

What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultery?

How can a person in the country illegally stop sinning? I can think of one way only.

It is not quite fair to say that since we all sin we have no right to take a stand on this issue. If that were the case we should just chuck all laws out the window.

Of course I am not saying we should be nasty to illegal immigrants. We should simply courteously escort them back across the border and do just a tad better job at preventing the problem in the first place.

_________________
Todd

All I am saying TMK is let the world take their stands, for who cares more about taxes and money and so on than the world and they will fight tooth and nail to protect what " is theirs." But let us rather be found to be on the side of love and mercy. We should be about our Father's business and let the world be about theirs..........bro Frank

havok20x

not a problem. i really don't know what the Lord heart is on this whole matter. i have begun praying about it myself because i have been having others share things with me a lot about this. it is a very difficult situation. i know very kind loving Christians on both sides of this topic.

rdg

If they have not repented and turned to Jesus, I don't expect them to leave at all.

They are dead in their trespasses and sins apart from Jesus Christ, so we cannot expect them to act as if they had the moral fortitude granted by the Holy Spirit.

Many American "Christians" are going to hear these words on that great day of judgment:

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. [Mat 25:41-42]

Many of the "illegals" crossing the border are born again Christians whose devotion to the savior would make many of us feel shame for our own lack of it. About a month ago I visited one of them in an immigration prison. The gangs in El Salvador kept pressuring him to "pay up" ... they finally told him that if he didn't he would come home and see the head of one of his children cut off. When he arrived at the border of the USA "illegally" the border patrol permitted his wife and 5 children to live with his dad, but they kept him in prison. God has a purpose ... he is winning souls to Jesus in the prison.

Should that man of God starve his children to satisfy the gangs in El Salvador, or should he seek a place of safety and search for a way to provide for them?

When God commands them to provide for their families, and they CANNOT where they are living, SHOULD THEY OBEY GOD OR MEN [USA's faulty immigration laws]?

I am currently housing a man who just arrived here from Honduras Sunday. He explained to me the EVERYBODY in Honduras pays "gang tax" and with what little they earn they might pay rent this month but will not be able to eat ... then if they buy a few groceries, they can't pay rent. He traveled 4 days on top of a train to get through Mexico. He watched a gang member machety a man right down the shoulder and in the abdomen ... and then throw him off the top of the train. He had a special code number written on his shoe that his leader gave him so that if a gang member caught him, the code would be his pass (gang taxes have been paid). When he crossed the border (praying all the way), it just so happened that the immigration department never saw their group. He traveled 4 days in the desert. One gallon of water between 4 guys didn't last long. He thought he would die of thirst. They rejoiced to find a drinking pond that cows were drinking out of to quench their thirst.

This is just one of the MANY horror stories that I hear all the time. A few days ago I found out that the sister of a good Mexican friend of mine ran into the attic of their office (in Mexico) and escaped a raid. When she came down fearing and trembling, she saw her boss' head in a box.


Most Christians have the attitudes that they have toward the immigrants simply because they are only hearing what the news media tells them. If they ever got the chance to communicate with them they would have a different attitude.

If I were in their countries suffering what many of them suffer, I would break the border laws of the USA too.

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

When it comes down to either obeying God or men, I would have to choose to obey God rather than men (as Peter did in the book of Acts).



Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

As for the MANY who arriving in the USA without Christ ... WHAT A MISSION FIELD!!! Right here amongst us ... you don't even have to leave home.

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Michael Strickland

its good to hear from others on this. it is a real difficult situation. as i said something to be praying and asking God what His heart on the matter is.

thanks
rdg