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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Biblical Inerrancy- Your thoughts

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dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
I'd say that, perhaps unknowingly and even in good intention, this belief system works against God and Christ.



I would agree - it works entirely against home-made Gods (read: idols). ;-) but exalts God as He revealed Himself in scripture.

I for one do not care if the world has fewer false religions.

Dan
/\/
\/\


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/4/21 15:36Profile









 Re:

Let me get this straight. If you don't believe in an inerrant Bible, literal seven day creation, you are an idol worshiper.

YOu just relegated millions of Christians, the vast majority of the faith, to idolotry. No better than devil worshipers.

Moreover, you constrain the Holy Spirit in your life. Shackels you don't need. Take them off. Deal with the real world.

Bub

 2005/4/21 16:06
modivarch
Member



Joined: 2005/4/21
Posts: 21


 Re:

(Eph 4:29) Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

I believe we should defend the bible, but I know that we have no place in slandering each other, especially a brother in Christ while doing this. Claiming that someone is deluded and unreasonable because he doesn't believe in evolution or saying that your gonna burn in hell if you do is completely wrong.

 2005/4/21 16:23Profile
Globachio
Member



Joined: 2005/4/21
Posts: 20
Baltimore

 Re:

philologos wrote:

Quote:
Pick and choose?????!!!! Using the brains God gave us must be a sin, then.


Yes it is, if you use them to defy what God has said. Your brain is not the ultimate judge, but must itself be judged by the ultimate Judge.


Though I don't normally engage in these exchanges, I read the entire thread and found this comment by Philologos to be the most interesting. So I thought I would respond.

First of all, I completely agree with Philologos. Martin Luther once referred to reason as a "whore" because it will give itself to anyone for any reason. For evidence one need only look at the way science and technology has been used in the 20th century. At the end of the 19th century many of the greatest minds in the world were convinced that we were on the verge of creating a veritable paradise on earth due to the advances made in medicines, industry, etc. But then came WWI and science and technology was used to develop chemical warfare, more efficient machine guns, fighter and bomber planes, etc. I think we need not go further, e.g, into WWII.

As a pastor I was efficiently and effectively trained in the historico-critical method of biblical exegesis in not one, but two seminaries (Roman and then Lutheran). I devoured every scholar from Achtmeier and Bultmann to Westermann and VanRad. I was convinced that scripture was largely myth, as I invested heavily into the JEPD framework for much of the Old Testament, and the Two-Source Theory with evident redactionism regading the Gospels. (Paul was considered merely a mysogonistic freak.)

However, after several years in the pastorate I encountered orthodox thinkers who didn't fit the stereotyped framework my seminaries had given me (stupid, knuckle-dragging, backwoods fools). In fact, these men and women not only knew the historico-critical method BETTER than I did, but they had an exegetical method (the historico-grammatical), a theology, and a spiritual depth that put me to shame.

Consequently I now hold firmly to the plenary inerrancy and infallibility of the Scriptures.

To abandon (or refuse to accept) plenary inerrancy is indeed to make oneself into a godlet. The reason being is that now *I* must judge Scripture itself; I must judge what is, and what isn't, worthwhile, or true, or applicable. And that's not merely dangerous, it's absolutely disastrous.

I recently met with another pastor who does not hold to inerrancy; who is convinced that the Bible contains contradictions, myths, is culture-boound - i.e., all the historico-critical assumptions. I told him that if his position is true, then everything he ever taught from the pulpit, every word he ever spoke in both pastoral counseling sessions and pastoral teaching events - in fact everything he ever said about Christ and Christianity - was nothing more than his own mere opinion; that it has no more authority than mere opinion. And because no one's opinion ever carries more weight than anyone else's (after all, it's merely an expression of subjectivity), then the opinion of the Nazis, KKK, Al-Quaida, etc., carries every bit as much weight as his.

Hence the inevitable result of rejecting plenary inerrancy.

Anyway, back to lurk mode. Thank you for your time.


_________________
Kevin

 2005/4/21 17:51Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Wow Globachio,
that's quite a pilgrimage. You surely must have some things worth passing on? Please don't stay in 'lurk mode' for too long.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/4/21 18:02Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
YOu just relegated millions of Christians, the vast majority of the faith, to idolotry. No better than devil worshipers.



Didn't Christ say that even some of those who prophesied and cast out demons and did other signs and wonders IN THE SPIRIT would not enter heaven? If even some of these will be turned away, there will likely be a LOT of people joining them in hell, some of which call themselves "Christians"


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/22 0:24Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

globachio

Quote:
To abandon (or refuse to accept) plenary inerrancy is indeed to make oneself into a godlet. The reason being is that now *I* must judge Scripture itself; I must judge what is, and what isn't, worthwhile, or true, or applicable. And that's not merely dangerous, it's absolutely disastrous.



Godlet...I like that term :-P It seems that we have allowed our minds to take the place of the holy spirit as it comes to interpreting scriptures. If we all agree that the bible is the Word of God and breathed by His very spirit, should it not follow that the Holy Spirit should breathe on us the interpretation and revelation that comes from scripture? I believe there are no errors in the bible of any kind, only contradictions and other such things that rear their heads when we don't let the Holy spirit minister to us the things of God. The errors only crop up when we become little godlets (if I may use your term) and interpret scripture for ourselves and by ourselves.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/22 0:33Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

oh to answer the question on the thread, I don't believe the bible to be inerrant, I KNOW it to be so.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/22 0:38Profile
AndrewBruce
Member



Joined: 2005/4/12
Posts: 23
Blythewood, SC

 Re:

Before I say anything else in this thread I must first ask that we not attempt to judge whether or not someone that we know only through the computer is a believer. Let us just leave that one to the Father and do our best to make this a discussion and not an argument.

Which leads to my second point, what is our goal in this discussion? I have no problem with bubbaguy using science in this discussion. I also have done much, much study in this area. But those of us that are on the other side of the fence, what is our weapon? Is it science or is it God's word? I do not say that we abandon science but only that it is not our exclusive basis. But rather that it be used less than the Holy Scripture. For if we only use science in our discussion with Bubba we will make it into an argument and not a discussion. But if we use scripture and he reads and prays over the Bible, which we say is so powerful, how much more likely is his heart to be changed? Is your goal to win an argument or change a heart?


_________________
Andrew Bruce

 2005/4/22 16:57Profile
AndrewBruce
Member



Joined: 2005/4/12
Posts: 23
Blythewood, SC

 Re:

Bubbaguy:
"Please don't be offended by my too prompt response. I have been studying the evolution/creation issues for many years and have been asked these questions before."

Do not worry about offending me, I was just a little disapointed that you did not fully respond to my questions. But you say you have heard these question before so please give me your answers so I can understand where your coming from.
1.Please explain why God says He created the earth in Seven days when He gives the ten commandments in Exodus 20
2.What does Jesus mean when He says that the scripture cannot be broken in John 10:35
3.Why does Romans 5:12-21 say that death and sin entered the world through Adam? (see also I Corinthians 15:20-23)
4.Why does Jesus and II Peter compare the final judgment to Noah's flood saying that both are worldwide?

I have more questions but I will stop there... If you could please answer these for me first then if you wish I will talk science with you. If you would rather communicate through e-mail my address is at the bottom.

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:

Christianity is about faith in Jesus, not faith in the literalness and inerrancy of the creation story. Don't let the later shake any confidence in the former.




Here is the problem with what you say. If God's word is not God's word than Jesus is not God's son. Our faith is based in this: That Jesus, God made flesh, came to earth lived a perfect life, died for our sins and rose and again and now sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven. If He says one thing that is not true He is not perfect and all falls apart.


_________________
Andrew Bruce

 2005/4/22 22:06Profile





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