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 Re: Jimmy

Brother you ARE TOTALLY OUT OF LINE regarding your comments about Greg. The comment about his wife Brandy was WAY OUT OF LINE.

Since you made the comments in a public forum I am compelled to rebuke you publicly. Brother you need to apologize to Greg publicly regarding your comments..

I may have reservations about what Greg may post.. If so then I will raise those issues in a private email. To openly disagree with someone`s position is one thing. To openly make comments of a personal nature particularly regarding one^s family is unacceptable and violates the rules of this forum.

Jimmy I can overlook your comments as youthful zeal. But you seriously need to apologize to Greg about your reference to his wife.

Blaine Scogin

 2014/5/6 18:50

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Jimmy

Brother you ARE TOTALLY OUT OF LINE regarding your comments about Greg. The comment about his wife Brandy was WAY OUT OF LINE.

Agree. It's one thing to respectfully disagree in a public venue such as this, since it is proper and expected to express disagreements at times. But to be so demeaning and spiteful toward brother Greg is not right.


 2014/5/6 20:03Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37633
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Seriously, stop praying for people to die if you are actually doing so. I cannot even begin to tell you how egregious I think this is.


I will take your post in love and not literal in every aspect. I personally am not scared or sad for the time if we ever came to it as a family that we would be martyrs for the Lord Jesus Christ. I am sure most of us will agree in the end that we will stand our Lord in that time if we have to.

I stand corrected in that thread that we should be praying for boldness to share the word of God that will results in persecution in some measure. And the original thought in the thread is NOT to pray for persecution to stop in China and North Korea but to pray MORE for them to be strengthened and be a witness of the Lord under persecution.

I do not see this as cultish but we do read in the Book of Acts that persecution and martyrdom happened all throughout it as well as all the original Apostles were martyred so if this is the cult we are speaking of I am glad to be a part of it. :)

Mega-church philosophy in the West is leading away to not being Christian and of course the thought of suffering and even martyrdom is foreign to these churches. David Wilkerson speaks of this in this message:

The Seeker Friendly Movement: A Prophetic Warning by David Wilkerson

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/5/6 20:18Profile

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


The Bible no where tells us to pray for persecution, What the Bible does teach however is that all Christians are in a Spirtual War.
The fallacy I feel with this thread is that it seems to give the impression that Western Christians are somehow excempt from this battle, that they somehow have no problems thus they have no need to cling to God, But the fact is we are all in the battle.

I would highly recommend this David Wilkerson sermon to all the readers and responders to this thread : The Private War of a Saint :

 2014/5/6 22:26Profile


Brother Jimmy,
Are you aware that the OP is cut and paste from the link to another website? Brother Greg did not write know what they say about ASS-U-ME :)

Anyway, you sound pretty hot under the collar but that doesn't mean it's ok to lash out at people, especially bro Greg. I think by tomorrow you will realize that the Holy Spirit did not inspire the tone of your words, and you will know what to do:)

Having said that you make some very good points and here is my take on some things that are being said:

1) just because there is not widespread religious persecution in America does not mean there is not the potential for any of us to take on as much personal persecution as we can gobble down. If anyone would like persecution just go ahead and break any and all current religious containment laws in your area and your will have the strong arm of "persecution" headed your way. The truth is that we have very few laws (yet) that are against us.

2) Persecution should not be our goal and neither should boldness to witness, our goal ought to be our compete and total dependence on a God. We are to look to God in everything and through everything, He must become the main "Thing", the One whom we seek, without ceasing. This should be the goal of our lives and as we seek Him, His reward to us is that He will truly be our source, our shield, our deliverer, a very present help in trouble.

3) If and until the kind of persecution that China and NK and other countries experience, arrives on our doorstep...God is not short of ways to allow us the joy of sharing in Christ's sufferings! Any believer who has no idea what "momentary light affliction" means, or does not know what it means to "suffer in the flesh", is either completely backslidden or is not yet, "In Christ". These means of grace, though not as dramatic as being locked in prison and tortured, are still legitimate means by which God perfects His children.

4) This site is a wonderful and a remarkable contrast and counterbalance to the fake, man centered, false gospel Christianity that now dominates the west. I pray that Gods hand will remain on this site and brother Greg. However, your warning may have some merit, it is easy to take some of the extreme views and create an unhealthy focus on being last days "remnant". In fact the Church of Wells have done just that. One would be hard pressed to find much difference between what they preach and the preaching of say, Paul Washer.

There is an important lesson in that for all of us. I also.notice that these forums get a lot of attention on end times, government intervention and these controversial sorts of things, but very little discussion on teaching that deal with personals revival, dying to self, broken and contriteness and being conform to the image of Christ. And if these or similar thoughts ever do come up they quickly descend into quarrels. Very little discussion here about what God is doing in each of our lives in this respect.

 2014/5/7 3:00

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638


We know how David prayed when He was persecuted.


 2014/5/7 6:12Profile


You must often confront persecution with the supernatural power of God to verify the message you carry. Recall Elijah on Carmel .... See the prayer of the Apostles above .... if heavy persecution comes then we better be praying for the supernatural to flow and be in a place in our lives that we can demonstrate, "signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

This supernatural working of God through His followers to "confirm His word with signs following" combined with boldly declaring an uncompromised Gospel defeats persecution of the enemy .... not hiding in a rabbit holes.

Persecution does not purify the church. It causes those who merely "play church" to flee from it. It may APPEAR to purify because those who were not truly born again flee from the heat. However, persecution can not obtain purity. It is the blood of Christ that purifies and cleanses from sin ... not persecution. The power of the blood of Christ far exceeds the power of persecution.

Witness boldly, pray for and demonstrate supernatural signs, wonders, and healings by God's Hand. That is exactly how we see the apostles confronting and winning their world in the face of severe persecution. Solomon101

Amen Brother to every word of that.

It will no doubt seem a strange thing to say it, but I do pray for persecution precisely on the grounds Solomon has written. Why? When I have given thought to those things which the Lord has laid on my own heart I see a time when it will be necessary for some brethren to hold the hands of those who are going to their deaths, even their own families. Then those who hold their hands, having done all in a peaceably spirit to bear witness of the rich mercy of God, will turn and bring the wrath of God down upon the heads of those who in the face of such peace and quietness will not repent. If the evil unbeliever will not repent in the face of quiet suffering and death, how will they repent? They will repent by the fierce wrath of God and the fear of the Lord. Those who resist even the just anger of the Father, and still will not repent will be given over to destruction in the hardening of their hearts. Then the tribulation will come. Then there will be no more an opportunity to resist anyone.

 2014/5/7 9:44


"This supernatural working of God through His followers to "confirm His word with signs following" combined with boldly declaring an uncompromised Gospel defeats persecution of the enemy .... not hiding in a rabbit holes."

My spirit witnesses with this statement. When the enemy comes in like a flood, then God raises up a standard. Now a standard symbolizes the flag. We used to have what was called a standard bearer. They were remarkable people. They would lead troops into battle not with a gun or a sword, but by holding aloft the standard. When the bearer would fall, then another would rush to take his place and so raise the standard high above the battle field. When you plant a flag it denotes possession. The flag, the standard, carries with it the right of ownership. God has a remnant group of saints around the world and make no mistake, He has them in North America, and they are fully possessed by Him.

When the enemy comes in like a flood and it seems that we shall be overwhelmed, He pours His Spirit into them in measures not normally seen and it gives them the courage to rush forward and maintain their momentum. This momentum is a heaven bound momentum come hell or high water. It is supernatural. And as God pours out His Spirit so, signs and wonders follow. Miracles of every kind testify to the saints who overcome the enemy by the Blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony and the fact that they love not their lives unto death. Truly remarkable. Every genuine saint, whether in China or North Korea or North America has this Spirit in them and I praise God for every brother and sister around the world. The Body of Christ is one, and there is no member elevated above another, to do so is to have fallen back into the flesh..............bro Frank

 2014/5/7 9:59

Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Peter says that suffering purifies our faith. Persecution, sickness, loss of anything, etc..."that the genuineness of your faith...may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ..."

 2014/5/7 13:16Profile

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC



Brother you ARE TOTALLY OUT OF LINE regarding your comments about Greg. The comment about his wife Brandy was WAY OUT OF LINE.

I have nothing personal against Greg or his wife. I don't even know his wife's name. I only made reference to her to highlight the reality of what we are talking about, because I don't feel this absurd idea of praying for God to send men to kill us is being taken seriously enough.

I mentioned her only to put a face on what we are actually talking about. We are talking about the martyrdom of real people here. If you are angered over my reference to her, then I think you are getting angry at the wrong person. I'm not the one here talking about praying for God to send persecution of the church to the West. I'm not the one praying for somebody to be murdered.

This is not the first time the idea has floated around on Sermon Index. And frankly, I find the idea repulsive. The idea should be banned from here with the same swiftness at which other bad and repugnant ideas are quickly dealt with.
It should be treated as a heresy that must be stomped out.


Jimmy I can overlook your comments as youthful zeal. But you seriously need to apologize to Greg about your reference to his wife.

Unless I've misunderstood what has been said, I see no reason to apologize.

Also, while we are at it...

Nobody here denies that godly living invites persecution. Scripture clearly says so. Nobody here denies being persecuted is a blessed thing. Scripture clearly says so. Nobody here denies there is a slumber in the church in America. That is a self evident truth.

Jimmy H

 2014/5/7 17:35Profile

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