Where did a lot of the present day thought and activity in the church world come from and what did the men of today, watch on "Christian TV" in the 80's and 90's?

Looking back, evidence that the religious realm cannot tell the difference between good and evil or what's spiritual and what is fleshly is displayed on television. For example, a leading Christian Broadcasting Network used to have a channel called the Family Channel which ran movies that showed love scenes, killing and violence (just like secular networks) and called themselves spiritual. There was a ministry based in Rockwall, TX and whose pastor was investigated by a news magazine TV show for mishandling money that was given to orphan children. The ministry called themselves the POWER TEAM and would have people believe that breaking chains and breaking concrete blocks with karate chops and breaking huge slabs of ice with their heads is Spiritual.

I read in the Bible of a man who could not be restrained with chains because he was demon possessed.

Another prominent minister based in Dallas, TX., was caught receiving information from a microphone hidden behind his ear and saying the Lord was speaking to him about the people in the audience. When exposed and confronted with this he said that this activity had Spiritual value.

CHURCHES everywhere spent millions building huge meeting places while thousands of people living near these "Family Life Centers" were in poverty both spiritually and in the natural. These churches did this because they considered large numbers in attendance and new and expensive buildings to be a sign of Spiritual success.

Leading evangelists displayed pride, arrogance and pomp that is not equaled by today's wrestling and boxing stars and they call it Spiritual. May the Lord have mercy on this society by granting repentance from all the fleshly junk that is going on in Jesus' name.

Greed (which is idolatry), self-centeredness, covetousness, materialism and things like these are found in the church world just as much as in the secular world. The church world's promotional methods are the same as the world's. The church world is not a testimony and a witness that Jesus is alive, but they try to persuade people by words and Madison Avenue methods about Jesus. The whole church world appeals to people to ACCEPT Jesus rather than to turn to HIM with a whole heart and make HIM the center of their lives. If a preacher teaches people that they can be part of the world and still be a Christian, then the preacher can benefit in several ways from their "conversion". On the other hand, if a preacher preaches separation from the world (which causes death to the flesh), his message will be offensive and odious to people and they will not support him. Consequently, preachers face being tempted with compromise. (Read 2 Cor 11:12-15).

These things were an indication in the 80's and 90's that the religious system was sick and corrupt and needs to be repented of. The system is much, much worse, today. Christianity in the Church world is not recognizable.

There has never been a time of deception and false teachers and false doctrine as there is today.

The word of God is slanted, adjusted, altered and misinterpreted. It is misrepresented, misapplied, and mishandled.

How many of hundreds of denominations and sects are operating in the Church world, today? They all have different beliefs about the Kingdom of God. They are all DIVIDED. They are all in competition with one another for money and people. They are ALL working and trying to perform things to make themselves acceptable in God's sight or to give them favor with the Lord, while at the very same time denying that they are doing this. Physical illness, problems with children, depression, financial trouble, divorce, emotional problems, etc. beset the religious world just as much as they do the people who do not profess Christianity.

Greetings

The book written by Robert speaks to some of these issues, its called Televangelicalism. Its a really good read and very informative.

Just_in wrote: Christianity in the Church world is not recognizable.

I would go so far as to say that the "TRUE BRIDE, CHURCH" has nothing to do with the world system of religion we see in the main stream today. JESUS true body of believers are hearing HIS voice and beginning to realize the time is now to choose who they will follow. Those who are sold out to JESUS will not compromise HIS WORD no matter how the world/religious system attacks them. Those who are HIS will be chased off, persecuted, and even put to death for HIS name sake while the world continues to offer up its religions to please men. Those who are twice born, who have had a real encounter with KING JESUS will never conform to anything less then JESUS as LORD of their lives, they will not compromise on sin and living in submission unto HIM in all things.

God bless
mj

Men love religion, it is a smooth liquor that sooths slightly, and helps them avoid dealing with the Great and Terrible Almighty God. Who is real abounding in love and forgiveness for those who call to Him in desperation.

Well done, Just-in. I too spent the '80's and '90's watching these things unfold, often feeling cut off and isolated because for one thing, I had listened to Ten Shekels and a Shirt just a short time after the message was recorded!

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Tom Cameron

Hi Sidewalk,

I also think men love religion because the flesh does not want to die.

If it is not plain to everyone with all of the church history we now have, let me just say, the "church world", "Christendom", "Religious structures" will never have unity. Their very makeup and survival requires them to continue to be divided because they must compete for money and people.

Nickels, noses and numbers are the fuel of the religious system and will continue to be.

2Pe_2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

So, we can either come out of religious Babylon as the Lord tells us or we can be part of it and part of her sins and plagues. Those aren't my words.

The Lord is commanding us to leave, and He will bring us to a people that have a vision of Him as their Head and a vision of the Church as the New Jerusalem, the Heavenly City. Not an earthly counterfeit.

As Frank says, the religious system will come together in a fake unity. It will be fake, because they will still be in competition with one another, but giving lip service to "unity". Take away the mammon and the religious system will crumble and that is not going to happen.

Religious Babylon will thrive right up until the end.
Rev_18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

The message of Revelation: Jesus Christ is Victor over Religion (Babylon).

I was converted early in 1982, right around the time that twilight began to settle on the church. Or to change the figure, I boarded the ship just as it was beginning to sink. Several disturbing events occurred that year:

1. On April 25th 1982, full-page ads appeared in the New York Times, London Times and LA Times announcing the arrival of the “Christ,” Lord Maitreya.
2. On July 1st, Johanna Michaelsen published The Beautiful Side of Evil which, along with the fraudulent testimonies of her friends Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford, began the Satanic Ritual Abuse hysteria that destroyed families nationwide, sent hundreds of innocents to prison, and for which evangelical Christians were ultimately responsible.
3. On July 28 Keith Green was killed in a plane crash.
4. The June 10 suicide of Oral Roberts’ son Ronald was like a starting signal for the increasingly maniacal behavior of televangelists which a few years later culminated in a series of appalling scandals.
5. Earl Paulk – whose adulteries were as the sands of sea and whose sexual conquests included several little girls – was appointed Bishop of the International Communion of Charismatic Churches and honored by President Bush as one of the “thousand points of light.”
6. The Calvary Chapel/Vineyard split took place that year.

In the spring of '83 I read a sermon by Charles Finney that shattered my faith, and I walked away from God and stayed away for a long time. One by one, my Christian friends also departed from the faith and by the end of the year our little church was in ruins.

Years later I came across Howard Pittman's 1979 prophecy that "this is the Laodicean Church Age" and that the "spewing out" of the visible church would begin on May 7th 1983. The facts seem to bear this out - at least in my own experience.

Does anyone else whose memory reaches that far back remember any similarly significant events from the spring of '83?

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Wayne Kraus

Just a point that leaps out of that for me, is a question of what you read by Finney that destroyed your faith. Generally, Finney destroyed the reasonings protecting secret sins that keep people from God- as was my case reading the man some years previous to 1983. I would be very interested to hear of your experience in that regard.

The Keith Green crash was a real shaker too. We had friends from the Texas YWAM base visiting with us in Minnesota, good friends with Keith and Melody. They dropped everything to rush home. It was a very sad day.

In a larger perspective, there has been a lot of up and down in the church in America since my lifetime- the explosion of the Charismatic movements in the '60's and '70's was very exciting- pentecostal experience among the old dead denominational churches was quite unexpected. I even ventured into some Roman Catholic meetings and was amazed. Especially when one women asked how she was supposed to worship the virgin and was gently told "We just worship Jesus here."

But the chains of Babylon were never really broken. Excitement is an unreliable substitute for the fruit of brokenness, and many wandered off in discouragement and different kinds of sin. I think that was around the time I became, unbeknownst to myself, a pharisee. I watched the things Just-in referenced, watched the growth of Name it and Claim it, and became cynical.

And old...

He has remained faithful, and has done so much healing of things in me I didn't know were sick.

Now I have to close this and go to Monday night church. About 100 severely handicapped adults are gathering to worship to the best of their abilities, and I love them.

Carry on, church!!

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Tom Cameron

In the 80's and 90's there were teachings on Angels and how to recognize your personal angel and where they were (Charles and Francis Hunter).

The whole Latter Rain movement and Manifested Sons of God.

Speaking of angelic visitations, one of the first before Charles and Francis Hunter, was Roland Buck. Do you ever recall that name? He was a former Assembly of God pastor. This man was deceived by many angelic visitations. Sixteen visitations in 2 years covering 50 hours (2-4 hours each).

2nd visitation - "quit preaching at relatives"
3rd visitation - "Angel Gabriel and Creoni" visited him.
4th visitation - he "worshiped some presence".
5th visitation - "visitation of Michael".

Deceiving spirits (1 Tim 4) speak about broader revelations and special truths. They told Roland that "God has a family plan" and "the ties of family are eternal". Also that "God always has a backup plan. If one plan doesn't work, He has another." Angels told him that there was complete forgiveness for everyone and that he should stop preaching pardon and repentance.

He had a superficial view of the atonement and his doctrine left out the work of sanctification.

He wrote the book "Angels on Assignment". Perhaps you have heard of it.

Even though he died in 1979, he has a web page and notice all the mixture on it. He has Watchman Nee and Ray Comfort.
http://www.angelsonassignment.org/

For his 6th visitation, he was told "you can reject the Spirit but not angels. Creoni told him that Joshua worshipped him.

More doctrines of demons: He was told that Jesus did not taste physical death for us because we still die.

1. Are the angels identified by non-biblical names?
2. Are the angels given non-biblical descriptions?
3. Are they performing roles beyond biblical context?
4. Are they sources of additional revelatoin beyond biblical content?
5. Are they in any way proclaiming another gospel?

Beware when someone says, "The Bible contains the Word of God."

Beware of familiar spirits.

Warnings
1. Angels are to be accursed if they preach any other Gospel (Gal 1:6-8)
2. Satan can appear as an angel of light in disguise (II Cor 11:14).
3. An Angel (spirit) is not to be believed simply because he is a spirit (1 Jn 4:1).
4. An angle may be a deceitful spirit. (1 Tim 4:1)
5. Beware of a religion of angels. (Angels are predominant and active, center of pictures, etc.) (Col 2:18)

I see a resurgence of "religion of angels", today.

When Jesus praised the Centurion who had asked Jesus to heal his servant, he went so far as to tell Jesus He need not actually go see the servant. He perceived that Jesus was operating under authority- just as he did.

I bring that in here because the man made Jesus' jaw drop. He had never seen faith like that in all of Israel, now when He finds a man of faith it is a gentile in service to a far away wicked king.

We are so given to creating and operating in our own authority, by throwing in a few angels the deception gains a sweet spiritual flavor, able to more easily deceive others. Men like this centurion have seen first hand how real authority operates, he needs no angels to recognize that Jesus is the real deal. That understanding of authority was what Jesus recognized as true faith.

Angels are servants of Christ and will not violate the scripture, and they will not displace the authority God gives to men. The angel did not preach the gospel to Cornelius, but directed him to get Peter in the house to preach.

I am convinced that it is a pleasure for angels to carry out a mission for Jesus on behalf of the humans He loves. We will probably be amazed in Glory looking back with perfect spiritual vision over our lives when we see the roles angels played. But real angels will never have pursued their own glory, or been used for unrighteous purposes by self-appointed Spiritual Giants.

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Tom Cameron