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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The rise of a new Judaism

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Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


We are truly a strange people
Jesus was a jewish man whom god sent to a jewish nation
He fulfilled all of the jewish customs and fulfilled the jewish prophecies
Was the new covenant sacrifice for the jewish church of christ
We the gentiles were grafted into that jewish olive tree and were given freedom in christ
We are happy to use the jewish analogy of the marriage for ourselves yet have a fear in celebrating anything jewish in the bible
There is so much we can learn from the scriptures and the feasts
I am not talking aabout bondage nor trying to be a jew
It is simply to understand
To celebrate
To rejoice
To see more of gods eternal plan
To see the fulfillment of christ
Many say that they are free and do not need to celebrate anything jewish
Instead of celebrating anything that is in scripture they choose to do the following

Celebrate christmas on a day and month that has nothing to do with the birth of jesus
Celebrate santa
Put up a pagan tree with all of its pagan idols
Celebrate halloween
Celebrate easter on a pagan day of the calendar different to the day and month in scripture
Celebrate hot cross buns and fertility eggs
Jesus was dead and buried 3days and 3nights as scripture declares
Yet we celebrate not those 3 days and nights
Where did the name easter come from
I have said all of the above to highlight that we say we are free but instead of celebrating what is clearly in scripture we are more happier to celebrate paganist practices
We have an excuse for our practices
Is it better to ptactice what is in scripture or what is in the world
Theologans study scripture so as to understand more of the hidden truths and to find true doctrine
Yet today there are so many differences within the churches
I think we have all gone off the path at various times
If what we do brings us closer to jesus
Brings us to repentance
Makes us humble and more loving
Makes us want to walk in christs gift of righteousness then it is good
Paul did not want us to convert to jews but to rejoice in the liberty of christ
Jesus is coming back for those who keep his commandments and that have the testimony of jesus christ
Paul collected gifts from the gentiles so as to help the church of jews that were suffering
We say we have freedom fom jewish practices
Yet we use the jewish command of tithing where is the freedom
What freedom would we have in the church today if we just obeyed pauls commands
Do not commit sexual immorality
Do not eat meat strangled or offered to idil sacrifice
Do not drink blood
The moment people are saved they are commanded to tithe and the church is happy to burden its members by applying for massive loans
Where is the faith in that
There is not one command in scripture for us to build a building and call it a church
There are preople suffering every day
Dieing in the streets
People in need of love and acceptance
Children with no meal
People living in gutters and we are content with building massive structures with massive debt
These will all be destroyed when the new heaven and earth are created
May we all trust in jesus
Live and walk in his love
Invest our time and money into eternal heavenly treasure
The souls of men women and children
Let us celebrate and rejoice in a life that is godly and that brings honor togod

 2014/3/15 0:52Profile


Nothing new under the sun.

Mat 21:18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
Matt 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

This parable illustrates the Jewish nation and its people (Luke 13:6-9), whose religion had the appearance of life and godliness, but that is as far as it went. They were not producing fruitfulness from a relationship of faith and obedience towards God. The Jewish religion would therefore not be able to provide the fruit of God's blessing to any man, forever. This is the same way it is with the Hebrew Roots movement. It has an appearance of life and godliness but it is bringing many into subtle bondage, but bondage nevertheless.

 2014/3/15 1:37

Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


Savannah- thank you for the link! I listened, and I think it's one of the first sermons I have heard that teach the way I have understood.
Steve Gregg on also has a more in depth lecture on the subject under Topical Lectures- What about Israel?

 2014/3/15 3:52Profile


Again the message by Art Katz entitled Beyond Messianic Judaism is a good one to listen to. Excellent insights from one who is Jewish.

Link can be found posted in Scripture and Doctrine under thread Beyond Messianic Judaism.


 2014/3/15 6:52

Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


Whenever I start to think I know something, I get something that shakes me down to the place of knowing nothing.

Art Katz says some good things- I find it so difficult to accept the view that there will be Levites performing priestly duties in the new temple in the Millennial reign, which is his view. He draws from Ez 40. The idea is so new to me that I don't know what to think.

- I tend to interpret scripture much like you described earlier in this thread with regards to Israel. I got that from reading scripture, and for a long time I had no idea that Christians took any other view.

This is from Arts Article,"Priesthood Made Ready": "In Ezekiel 40 and from there on, it talks about the configuration of such a temple, its lineaments and its proportions. It is given in such remarkable detail that it is hard to imagine it being just an allegory. Surely it must be something actual and that will exist in the redeemed Israel. Some believers have a difficulty with that because it talks about the restoration of sacrifices performed by priests. I have heard estimable men of God, who hold so jealously the sacrifice of Jesus as the Lamb of God, say, “No there cannot be another temple; there cannot be a resumption of sacrifice.” But does it mean that such a sacrificial ministry invalidates the once-and-for-all sacrifice of Christ? Or does it memorialize it?
Just as the history of sacrifice prepared Israel for the Lamb that would come without spot or blemish, and whose blood would be shed as a once-and-for-all, it is quite possible that a sacrificial ministry would be resumed in the millennial Israel, not to replace that sacrifice of the Lamb, but to be a memorial and reminder, to bring us back to a deepened appreciation of what has been given. It cannot be a substitute, and will detract nothing from the efficacy of the Lamb’s sacrifice, but rather enhance it
If this is true, there needs to be a priesthood to perform sacrifice."

It seems to me that this interpretation of scripture would lead to the perpetuation of following rituals.

 2014/3/15 19:34Profile

Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada


Onemite said, "Art Katz says some good things- I find it so difficult to accept the view that there will be Levites performing priestly duties in the new temple in the Millennial reign, which is his view. He draws from Ez 40. The idea is so new to me that I don't know what to think."

Don't be too quick to accept it. The only way that could happen is if the Levites offered animal sacrifices again.

And that is not going to happen, God has no intention of going back to the Levitical priesthood, or to the sacrifices they offered.

"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law) what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisedek, and not after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Hebrews 7:11,12).

God has established a different priesthood in the New Covenant, a priesthood after the order of Melchisedek. Its members are both Jews and Gentiles who are in covenant relationship with God through the Lord Jesus Christ, and they offer up, not animal sacrifices, but "spiritual sacrifices" (1 Pet. 2:5).

"But ye are a chosen generation [race, ie, born again Jews and Gentiles], a royal priesthood, a holy nation [ie, a spiritual nation from among all nations, Rev. 5:9,10], a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light, which in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God, which had not obtained mercy, but have now obtained mercy" (1 Pet. 2:9,10).

It's very encouraging to see in this thread the light that is growing in many hearts with regard to this often-misunderstood aspect of truth.

Allan Halton

 2014/3/15 20:54Profile


Has anyone noticed that we are in the Jewish feast of Purim? A number of evangelicals are saying that we need to observe this Jewish feast. I keep wondering about the verse in Galatians where Paul tells his readers that you observe days and months and seasons and years. His concern is he has labored over the Galatian believers in vain.

I wonder what Paul would say to these evangelicals today?


 2014/3/16 8:28


I will tell you what I would say. "I am enjoying the BETTER FEAST, the BREAD OF LIFE. I have no use for SHADOWS. I have the REAL THING."

 2014/3/16 11:59


Amen brother. Good insight. May we continue to feast on Jesus who is the REAL THING.


 2014/3/16 12:32

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5679


quote: "Has anyone noticed that we are in the Jewish feast of Purim? A number of evangelicals are saying that we need to observe this Jewish feast."

Well, hamantaschen are pretty good- especially the apricot ones.


 2014/3/16 12:38Profile

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