SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : RANSOM?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: paid for our sins is a metaphor

Quote:
paid for our sins is a metaphor


Almost every Bible symbol is a metaphor, that does not reduce their importance. Christ as Light, Bread, Door, Truth, Life, Way are all metaphors. These are divinely chosen metaphors designed to give light and instruction to seeking souls.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/4/9 4:12Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Almost every Bible symbol is a metaphor, that does not reduce their importance. Christ as Light, Bread, Door, Truth, Life, Way are all metaphors. These are divinely chosen metaphors designed to give light and instruction to seeking souls.



In the spirit the above-mentioned metaphors become real, as real as anything you or I see. The bible is a spiritual book and it must be looked at as such. Anything short of that serves no purpose but glorification of ourselves. We should all be cautious of the intent driving out search and study of the scriptures lest we attempt to glorify ourselves rather than God. If we look at the bible as we would any other book, not much of it makes sense, but viewing it in the spirit makes all the difference, it all falls into place and makes perfect sense. In the spirit the bible become what it should be, literal, powerful an insight into the character of God, food for the spirit man, literally. We know the bible to be the word of God spoken by Him and born of His spirit and it requires His spirit to interpret and instruct us accordingly. We have libraries upon libraries of varying interpretations of things in the bible in a myriad of languages, but if all those volumes were not the product the instruction of the spirit of God then they serve no purpose but the glorification of man and lead brethren astray. At the end of the day if my interpretation of what a passage of the bible means is not born of the holy spirit, it helps noone and can potentially mislead many. There were and are many biblical scholars out there, some had no leading of the spirit and others that did and yet we hold such scholarship in high esteem. a few big words here and there, a nice sounding phrase now and again and we're hooked. The pharisees knew the holy writs better than anyone and yet Christ had nothing good to say about them. Let us not fall into the trap of becoming slaves to spewing biblical verses on demand without being slaves to the spirit of GOd. I mean what good is a spiritual book if it is not looked at as such? This has been weighing heavy on me in spirit for some time now. God has opened my eyes and ears to a lot of hot air which we spew forth to take the place things which the spirit of God should be saying and how it makes it difficult for new followers in Christ to learn and grow in the faith. It is astounding how much of this hot air as been going around from even the very inception of the church.

The time to seek God in spirit an truth is now more than ever, for what is about to happen will require that our spirits be quickened and in tune with the will of God, lest we be swept away by the coming judgement.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/9 20:22Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re: A figure of speech?

Quote:
We should all be cautious of the intent driving out search and study of the scriptures lest we attempt to glorify ourselves rather than God. If we look at the bible as we would any other book, not much of it makes sense, but viewing it in the spirit makes all the difference, it all falls into place and makes perfect sense. In the spirit the bible become what it should be, literal, powerful an insight into the character of God, food for the spirit man, literally.



Yes Farai, Imust agree with you very strongly there. The Bible is simpler than we make it. Let us remember whom it was written to. A group of largely “unlearned” “unlettered” folk to not only read and meditate on the Gospel according to John and the epistle to the Hebrews, but also to understand them. We complicate things a lot more than we should quiet frankly. If something is meant as a metaphor or parable it is stated plainly, and to that which is not we must interpret to be literal. Our intelligence causes us to jump to wrong conclusions and precepts. From my experience, that which is spoken of literally is literal and that which is a metaphor or a parable is stated as such. We are not left to our devices to examine the book as if it were literature and to draw conclusions thereof but, the more literally we take the Bible the further we will advance spiritually.

Quote:
The pharisees knew the holy writs better than anyone and yet Christ had nothing good to say about them. Let us not fall into the trap of becoming slaves to spewing biblical verses on demand without being slaves to the spirit of God.



The reason there is so much confusion is because of several things, which I believe to stem form a lack of spiritual authority. We have in our day and age, many mental authorities of the Bible but not many who are noted for divinely appointed spiritual authority. Leading scholars do not impress me at all. If you are able to show me practical results from a form of doctrine than I am all ears, but if all we have is theory and conjecture what pray tell, do we have our faith based on? Is not our God alive and living and powerful…and literal?

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. (John 6:60-64)

James


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/4/9 23:27Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:figures of speech; metaphors and similies.

Quote:
If something is meant as a metaphor or parable it is stated plainly, and to that which is not we must interpret to be literal.



This is a deadly philosophy. Metaphors [u]never[/u] come with 'warning labels'. That is what a metaphor is. A 'simile' comes with a warning label usually the word 'like' or 'as', but a metaphor, by definition, has no warning label. Let me illustrate simply The reason there is so much confusion is because of several things, which I believe to [u]stem[/u] form a lack of spiritual authority. (your sentence) Do you really believe that the absence of "spiritual authority" is some kind of plant or shrub growing in the earth with branches developing from the main stalk or 'stem'? Of course you don't, but if I take your words literally I must interprete your word 'stem' in this way. Your 'metaphor' like all metaphors had no 'warning label'. A metaphor is a simile without a warning label.

The Bible was written in human languages for human beings, and human beings always use pictures to explain things. Metaphors are 'word pictures' used without 'warning labels'; so are parables. God has used 'human language' in the way that we all use it, and to say that everything which is not specifically labelled as a metaphor is literal is really a very extreme position and I don't believe you hold it.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/4/10 3:07Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Do you really believe that the absence of "spiritual authority" is some kind of plant or shrub growing in the earth with branches developing from the main stalk or 'stem'? Of course you don't, but if I take your words literally I must interprete your word 'stem' in this way. Your 'metaphor' like all metaphors had no 'warning label'. A metaphor is a simile without a warning label.



Indeed it is, while it may not be visible to the eye of the flesh in the spirit it is such a plant, a poisonous one at that that can kill the spirit. If all the things Christ said of that are said in the bible are metaphorical, them where do we draw the line? When Christ said that I will give you a new spirit was that a metaphor? if so does this spirit require metaphorical spiritual food or real spiritual food? Bro Ron you have said yourself on some place in this forum that you are a teacher of the word. You will have much to answer for before God if what you teach is not given you by the holy spirit. If what you teach isn't given you by the Holy spirit, then that misleads many who then go n to mislead others and where does it end? For others out there who are teachers the very same applies. Not to say that this doesn't apply to me or others but for the teachers, they will be judged more harshly because people look to them for a word from God.

Bro Ron every time you have explained something you have always quoted something from the BDB ( don't quite remember what that stands for) or some renowned theologian or scholar, never have you mentioned that the spirit gave me a revelation of this or that. I submit to you that if all these theologies and products of scholarship had equal power in the spirit, by God the enemy and his minions would be on their knees pleading for us to stop putting the boot to their backsides! But look around you, who is getting the whooping? This is evidence that all these great libraries are full of nonsense! Hot air! What really sucks is that this stuff has taken the place of the ministry of the holy spirit and it sounds so good that nobody wants to give it a second thought. I guess we are more impressed by big words and nice-sounding statements.This is the same stuff the pharisees were spewing and which Christ was so against because it is hard for anyone to understand. If my interpretation of scripture, your interpretation of scripture is not a thing taught by the Holy spirit then it is nothing but useless and we need to realize that. I guess you may have a problem with that as will many other theologians, scholars etc because so much time and resource has been invested into fashioning all this stuff and now to be told that it is useless? THAT WOULD SUCK for anyone who had done all this and has come to the realization or been convicted that it has not been born of the spirit and has been a waste of time. It will not withstand the fire as it is a work of wood hay or stubble rather than gold of precious stone...or maybe that too was a metaphor...


Quote:
Metaphors are 'word pictures' used without 'warning labels'; so are parables. God has used 'human language' in the way that we all use it, and to say that everything which is not specifically labelled as a metaphor is literal is really a very extreme position and I don't believe you hold it.



In the spirit these things become literal and of course if you look at them any other way they will look like nice metaphors or similies and all. The scriptures are so simple to comprehend in the spirit. We've taken them, concluded that they are too simple and have set about the business of complicating them to the point where if you have not been to some bible college or been taught by a theologian or scholar they make no sense. There are some scholars and theologians out there that indeed are teaching as per the leading of the spirit but a lot of them are not as evidenced by the lack of manifestation of power in all the many books that have been written.

God's hand has been heavy on me concerning this (yes literal hand has been pressing on my spiritual body) to speak forth. He's allowed me to feel the grief He feels, the indignation at all this and at first I paid no attention to it but now I feel these things all the time. Man I pray that you all get to feel what I've felt or seen what God has shown me and even greater things in your own lives. You will never look at God the same again once you've experience Him in the spirit. You get hooked on it once you realize that there is no substitute for meeting God in the spirit.

Seek God in the spirit and you will want nothing less.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/10 9:25Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Inkhorns

Quote:
The Bible was written in human languages for human beings, and human beings always use pictures to explain things. Metaphors are 'word pictures' used without 'warning labels'; so are parables. God has used 'human language' in the way that we all use it, and to say that everything which is not specifically labelled as a metaphor is literal is really a very extreme position and I don't believe you hold it.



Our religion in Christ is the most extreme one there is…or haven’t you noticed. I am weary of humanizing spiritual things. If, as Farai put it, we look at scriptures in the spirit then we will be amazed as to how literal they are. The Bible is clear as to which of the discourses of Jesus were parables and the others we are to take literally. We are trying too hard to make the fleshly mind and faculties profit from scriptures but our Lord said to us, “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

The Spirit has pressed upon me to give this as an illustration:

Ezekiel 9:1-4 1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. 2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Now then, is this passage literal or metaphorical? Is there “ink” in the spiritual realm or this also metaphorical? If we have spiritual ink and ink horns then how many other things are literal in the spiritual realm?

James


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/4/10 9:59Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Bro Ron every time you have explained something you have always quoted something from the BDB ( don't quite remember what that stands for) or some renowned theologian or scholar, never have you mentioned that the spirit gave me a revelation of this or that.


Would you be more impressed if I did? Its the steam going through the pistons that gets the job done, not that which goes through the whistle. 8-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/4/10 11:42Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Would you be more impressed if I did? Its the steam going through the pistons that gets the job done, not that which goes through the whistle.



Actually I wouldn't but if there was evidence of power in the spirit from the sources you quote and esteem so highly then I would be most impressed, more importantly so would God.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/10 11:57Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Actually I wouldn't but if there was evidence of power in the spirit from the sources you quote and esteem so highly then I would be most impressed, more importantly so would God.



I am wondering whether to continue this foolishness or not. Let me say simply that I have never quoted an 'authority' (btw BDB is Baker Dictionary of the Bible and is free with e-sword) except as confirmation of my own leading in the spirit. I never go to the authorities, except at the end of my meditation. I never begin there. I bring 'out of my own treasure things new and old' (Matt 13:52)... and in that order.

...but a true Spirit-led man is never afraid to listen to what others have to say; even his enemies. It is the fanatic who dares not listen to the safety which exists in the multitude of counsellors. (Prov 11:14) I do not believe that I am infallible, but I do believe that God speaks to me. Like Paul I am not afraid to go to 'Jerusalem' to talk to other saints, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. (Gal 2:2)

John Wesley Wesley said of certain he met that they had sundry excellent qualities, but unfortunately they knew everything and therefore learned nothing. I do not want to join that company.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/4/10 13:22Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
I welcome and encourage challenge of my views. I am constantly rethinking my beliefs and interpretations of scripture. I have been doing so for almost 50 years and will do so to my last breath. I don't regard challenge as a threat. I have nothing to lose but my errors.


_________________
His/Yours
Ron B



After reading that from the propiciation and red heifer (pardon the spelling I may have gotten it wrong) and this

Quote:
I am wondering whether to continue this foolishness or not. Let me say simply that I have never quoted an 'authority' (btw BDB is Baker Dictionary of the Bible and is free with e-sword) except as confirmation of my own leading in the spirit. I never go to the authorities, except at the end of my meditation. I never begin there. I bring 'out of my own treasure things new and old' (Matt 13:52)... and in that order.



Quote:
...but a true Spirit-led man is never afraid to listen to what others have to say; even his enemies. It is the fanatic who dares not listen to the safety which exists in the multitude of counsellors. (Prov 11:14) I do not believe that I am infallible, but I do believe that God speaks to me. Like Paul I am not afraid to go to 'Jerusalem' to talk to other saints, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. (Gal 2:2)



I am confused. you're not even entertaining what I have to say and yet you say you are open to challenges to your views on scriptures
:-? What's the deal with that...oh wait...never mind


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/10 14:34Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy