Ron's: The progress of conformity to Christ, which I prefer to call glorification, is indeed a process but there is no sense of sanctification as a process in the Old Testament concept of the word; you either are or you aren't. I think we need to be sure we don't lose this decisive sense in our NT theology.
_________________Robert Wurtz II
Ron, as i have said before,isn't faith also work? because if believing is having faith, then believing is a work we do(remember the old thread)
If you are born again it is no longer to be your faith God is pleased with but the Faith of the Son of God within you and works from you in that Faith, He seeks matured. i.e., the very Life oif Christ. see Gal 2.20 KJV only for that word. Compare with the others and you will see why....if you can make distinctions.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God... Man has no natural ability in and of himself to express a saving faith in Christ. The word of God that is preached, however, enables man to take God at His word and believe the gospel. Apart from the enabling power that comes from the word of God, man cannot believe. The word of God that is preached is the work that produces the ability to have faith. *edit* And with this knowledge, one doesn't have to thump KJV only type positions in regard to Galatians. The ability to have faith is supernaturally imparted through the preaching of the word of God.
_________________Jimmy H
Jimmy and Ormly, thanks for the explanation...but how many, on a given sunday, express faith that succintly? that's what's grieving.... believe and be saved. yeah, i just cringe.... faith is a work, but the faith that a true believer has comes from the faith of Christby the way, i guess nobody has really listened to the sermons i posted from brother Roberts, but as he states, we Would do well to remember of Yehuda the Iscariot every single day of our lifethis idea that once saved always saved, or once justified always justified- is clearly debunkted by the life of Yehuda
...Apart from the enabling power that comes from the word of God, man cannot believe...
I'd encourage those of you who do believe that we are either pre-destinated (In the Calvinistic term) or once-saved-allways-saved to take a look at what the early church taught. They have some good insites into the heart of God and the scriptures (i'm not saying their word is on the same level as the Bible though, so don't get me wrong :-) ) on these issues.i personally have been really blessed by their commentaries (spelling???) and am deeply challenged when i read about their lives of divition to Jesus.here's a good rescource website for it...www.scrollpublishing.comor check out some sermons about these subjects on:www.charityministries.orgi'd highly recommend both these places. The only downfall to the first is that it costs money... :-o God Bless you all as you continue to keep your hearts open to God's will and plan...-nathan
_________________Nathan
"Hence my question; once justified, always justified?"The answer is obvious--you can't lose your salvation, but you can walk away from it.Once you are a saint you will always be God's child, nothing can stop you from going to heaven--God promiced.However, just because you are a saint--doesn't mean that you don't have a choice anymore. No choice means no freedom, no choice means no love. You are a human--capable of choice, freedom, love. And until you die you may still walk away from God and ressurect the body of death again.Every true Christian will agree with me when I say that absolutely nothing can seperate a saint from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:35-39) And Satan Knows this.However, Satan's plan is to use suffering, riches, part-truths to try to persuade you to change your mind away from God. To beguile you away from the will of God. Satan did this with Eve, and he did it with Jesus. And if you yield to sin, like David with Bathsheba (II Samuel 11:1-12:14), then you are in danger of judgement--you can't expect to go to heaven and you can't expect for God to love you--and you must repent and turn to God to save you from your sin and restore you. But if you give up your birthright as a saint, like Esau (Genesis 25:29-34), then you are doing the opposite of being born again of God, then for sure you will die and go to hell unless you repent and turn to God to save you from your sins.Now the world would persuade you that sin isn't that bad and you don't have to get all "religious" to be good.But the truth is that sin is worse than you think--peoples' lives depend on your every action.And if you are a saint and you study to be excellent at winning souls to Christ and you live your life in a way that is most useful to God and man, who cares that they call you religious? You shall have the better resurection.And if you indeed live your life so that you can say with Paul, "I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:26-27) If you can honestly say that at Judgement Day in front of God and the whole world, what does it matter that you were called "religious"? What does it matter that anything bad like that happens to you?Remember, if you will live godly in Christ Jesus, you WILL suffer persecution, and you will receive the reward.But if you do not live godly in Christ Jesus, then you should NEVER expect to go to heaven when you die. You must repent and turn to God, and cry to Jesus to have mercy on you and save you from your sins. And he will set you free and you shall be free indeed.
_________________Vitali Moiseenko
Amen ex-atheist. Well said that we cannot "loose" our salvation, but that we can walk away from it.i'd also like to point to a scripture that is often neglected in the discussion of once saved always saved:Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. If He won't blot it out if they would overcome, then that means that He was going to if they did not. i think that this is as clear a scripture as any, from the mouth of our Lord Himself, clearly stating that if one does not overcome, his name will be blotted out of the Book of Life. If it can be blotted out, that means it was in there at one point. This verse also touches on predestination... think about it for a while.Let us walk worthy of our calling, brethren.In Christ,-nathan
However, Satan's plan is to use suffering, riches, part-truths to try to persuade you to change your mind away from God. To beguile you away from the will of God. Satan did this with Eve, and he did it with Jesus.
