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 Re:

Quote:

According to Scripture we are living in the "time of the gentile." And as you point out, the New Covenant is far better than the Old Covenant, and the time of the Old Covenant has ended. I hear many teachers of the Scriptures point to the failures of OT Israel. They always point to those who backslid under the Law of Moses. And then I hear these same teachers expound upon the victorious Church of the New Covenant. Yet today in many places where the "victorious church' once flourished have now decayed into idol worship and deception.

According to the evidence I see today, there is no difference between the generation of today and that of Elijah's time.

Would you agree?



Unfortunately, yes! I would agree. I am reminded by something Milton Green has said, "The Church is a dwelling place of demons".

Would you agree?

 2013/10/31 21:28
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

just-in wrote:

Unfortunately, yes! I would agree. I am reminded by something Milton Green has said, "The Church is a dwelling place of demons".

Would you agree?


Satan and his offspring are always lurking around to see whom they may devour.
Since the fall of man...

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

God announced the beginning of this spiritual battle.


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Jeff Marshalek

 2013/11/1 7:00Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

PaulWest wrote:

"He had to fulfill Old Testament scripture and suffer being forsaken and cry out to God as was written. All this is pre-Calvary. The Apostles at the same time were hiding away, fearing for their lives like Elijah, still under the law. The temple veil had not been rent yet and the Holy Spirit hadn't been sent to fill their hearts with victorious grace."


So then do the teachings of Jesus, especially the parables, apply to the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?


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Jeff Marshalek

 2013/11/1 10:27Profile









 Re: Paul

you wrote this:

Quote:
Elijah ran from a woman who put a hit out on him. If Paul hid himself away in a cave and grumbled each time a pagan priest or angry Judiazer put a contract on his head, he probably wouldn't have any time to plant churches and preach the Word! But we know Paul from his own admission that he experienced "fears within". The difference between him and Elijah in dealing with the fear was that under the New Covenant the grace of God could actually set him free from its dominion. He didn't even have to wait for an angel; the Holy Spirit indwelt him with immediate resolve.



I read this....and, its just wrong, and off.....and I could engage you in yet another boring and turgid religio-Scriptural argument....here's an hour of an exhortation from Len Ravenhill, who has quite a different opinion of the prophet than you seem to...its from sermonindex video files, entitled:

" Prophet Elijah-Leonard Ravenhill"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umPpXrRDF_s

maybe you'll prayerfully watch slash listen to this wonderful exhortation from a man I regard as the closet thing to a modern "prophet".......I have prayed for a living mentor, a father in the Faith...yes, I have God the Holy Spirit...I asked for also for a living man, so God sent me Brother Len....well he first sent me brother Greg, who THEN had brother Len onsite, even though that dear man is with the Lord...I have "sat under his feet" for hours, and never once has he said anything my spirit felt was "off", in fact, quite the opposite......I would feel CONVICTED...and urged onto "repairing the altar"...or urged onto more holiness, a sold out prayer life...all the Good Things of This Most Holy Faith.

not this fruitless pointless argument, while the world LITERALLY teeters on the brink of destruction.....I fail to see any fruit from this thread.....except bitter fruit; throwing stones at Elijah?...Paul,really?

anyway, sigh, shrug....I pray you watch brother Len on Elijah, before you go judging a prophet of God.

 2013/11/1 11:32
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I pray you watch brother Len on Elijah, before you go judging a prophet of God.


Neil, I actually have this sermon on VHS and have seen it many times. I have a tremendous respect not only for Elijah, but for all the OT prophets. I see you are getting emotional and taking everything I'm saying wrong and thus missing the entire point. It will be fruitless to continue the discussion. God bless you brother. Let's just leave it alone.

Your friend, Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2013/11/1 12:47Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
So then do the teachings of Jesus, especially the parables, apply to the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?


To the New Covenant, of course. I do not consider Christ's sufferings due to His Father's forsaking Him didactic in a New Covenant sense, as one of the major promises in scripture states that God will never leave us or forsake us. But He did forsake His Son. His situation was unique.

Dear brother, I think we are slightly talking past each other. Can you agree that Paul and Peter had something greater than Elijah and all the rest of the OT prophets and kings had? Note, I am not saying that the OT luminaries were failures at all; I deeply respect these heroic men. But we must see that a man considered an even greater prophet than Elijah, John the Baptist, came to have doubts in Christ while in prison. I am not faulting him for this, or casting stones at him as some seem to think - I'm simply stating a scriptural fact. These Old Covenant men lacked the power of New Covenant grace, and because of this simple fact, sin still had dominion over them (according to Romans 6:14).

This means that doubt and fear for their lives had dominion over some (like Elijah, Abraham, etc.); lust had dominion over others (like King David, Samson, etc.); the love of money took dominion over guys who started off good like Solomon, Gehazi, Balaam, etc. Now I fully realize these things can still take dominion over us under the New Covenant - hence all the warnings in NT scripture. I believe there are many Christians genuinely born again who have not understood their New Covenant birthright of grace and their ability to partake in Christ's divine nature, and as such they live legalistic and habitually defeated lives - in fact, far, far lower than than of the prophets under the Mosaic law who did not have the grace of Jesus Christ. This is tragic, wouldn't you agree?

The difference I am simply proposing is that sin "does not have to" take dominion over a man under the New Covenant, as it did with the men who were still under the schoolmaster and therefore the "shadow" of Reality via the law. This why you don't read of Peter or Timothy slipping into adultery and murder, or Paul hiding in a cave from Felix, or John having doubts about Jesus while stranded on Patmos, etc. They had grace of the Holy Spirit to overcome!


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Paul Frederick West

 2013/11/1 13:22Profile









 Re: "lets just leave this alone?"

with fleshly self opinions like this?

Quote:
Can you agree that Paul and Peter had something greater than Elijah and all the rest of the OT prophets and kings had? Note, I am not saying that the OT luminaries were failures at all; I deeply respect these heroic men. But we must see that a man considered an even greater prophet than Elijah, John the Baptist, came to have doubts in Christ while in prison. I am not faulting him for this, or casting stones at him as some seem to think - I'm simply stating a scriptural fact. These Old Covenant men lacked the power of New Covenant grace, and because of this simple fact, sin still had dominion over them



what are you doing?.....and you're a moderator?

you tell me, "lets just leave this alone"....and then write a post I find not only OFF Biblically.....but totally divisive and wrong-hearted.

and you're a "moderator"?

i'm watching the united states of Babylon sell Israel down the river to iran's murderdous intentions, and at the same time, reading one of the moderator's of the only Revival Site I love, drag Old Testament giants of the Faith thru the mud of his own twisted imaginations....ooooo, these are truly the last days...imagine if the last 1700 years of "church history" was put into Canon....how would that read?

 2013/11/1 14:15
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Neil, instead of attacking me at a personal level, please show me from scripture where I am wrong. I honestly don't understand what I have done to make you so angry.

Quote:
you tell me, "lets just leave this alone"....and then write a post I find not only OFF Biblically.....but totally divisive and wrong-hearted.


I've simply made personal observations from both the Old and New Testaments and am speaking very friendly with you and Rookie, with respect and openheartedness. Why are you so angry?

Quote:
and you're a "moderator"?


I am. Have I done anything in these posts to disqualify myself? I thought Rookie and I were having an edifying discussion.

Quote:
reading one of the moderator's of the only Revival Site I love, drag Old Testament giants of the Faith thru the mud of his own twisted imaginations


I am not dragging them through the mud, as you say. They were under the law, and hence sin still had dominion over them (Romans 6:14), as opposed to those who would come under grace through Jesus Christ. It's not my twisted imagination. It's plain scripture.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2013/11/1 14:30Profile









 Re:

I don't see anything wrong with what Paul is writing.

A lot of things changed at this point:

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

What exactly is the problem, Neil?

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 2013/11/1 17:18
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

PaulWest wrote;

Dear brother, I think we are slightly talking past each other. Can you agree that Paul and Peter had something greater than Elijah and all the rest of the OT prophets and kings had?


There are two aspects to the question you pose. In order to explain as I see it in Scripture I must first address God's plan in reference to time.

The first precept is explain by Paul...

Act 17:26
“And He has made from one bloodfn every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

Act 17:27
“so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

God has established preappointed times and boundaries for all men. Within God's plan, we know from Scripture that there are generations in which God withhold's His grace and there are generations in which He pours out His grace.

Through your posts in this thread you have mentioned Elijah, John the Baptist, Paul and Peter. You have sought to differentiate the ministries of Elijah and John from that of Paul and the Apostles.

Scripture truly does support your thoughts, but not in the way most believe it to be. What I mean by this is that according to God's plan, in a specific generation, there are two "types" of ministries. To bring clarity to this distinction, let us consider the first "type" the one who prepares the way.

2Ki 2:15
Now when the sons of the prophets who were from Jericho saw him, they said, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha.” And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.

God pass on to Elisha the ministry of Elijah. Note the "spirit of Elijah"....

Luk 1:17
“He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,'fn and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Now we see that the angel informs Zacharias of the "nature" of his son's ministry. Again note..."in the spirit and power of Elijah."



Mat 17:10
And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”

Mat 17:11
Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming firstfn and will restore all things.

and

Mal 4:1
“For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the LORD of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2
But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

Mal 4:3
You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the LORD of hosts.

Mal 4:4
“Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.

Mal 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Mal 4:6
And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

This prophesy is yet to be fulfilled...

In God's preappointed times and boundaries, He assigns men to in different generations to do the work of Elijah in spirit and power...


I will stop for now with one more Scripture which will help one meditate on this precept I have shared...

Act 19:3
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

Act 19:4
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”


Do you recognize the ministry of Elijah?


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2013/11/1 19:30Profile





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