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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What is the difference between the old covenant vs. the new covenant.

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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


The "difference" is based on who reacts to the call of the Holy Spirit directed by the Word of God. From Genesis through Revelation, the Father provides for the Son a Bride, the Holy Remnant. The Son, the sacrifice for our transgressions, is the remnant's High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec.

Jeff Marshalek

 2013/10/26 11:02Profile

Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


"the call of the Holy Spirit directed by the Word of God."

well said. I read it three times before it finally sunk in.

And who reacts to the call. What is important in regard to the question of what has changed, as some don't agree with reacting at all.

I just want to say something to the first sentence where the Holy Spirit is directed by the Word of God, and that is: There is a spirit centered gospel that goes directly against that principle, it is so popular at the present age that nobody looks closely anymore to detect whats wrong with that. I only can see it myself after I'm really troubled reading how so many people pick "a piece of a scripture" ignoring most surrounding words and meaning to fit and support what they already believe to be true in spirit. And never check the Spirit vs a spirit in light of The Word. That's how christian mysticism separates itself and is no longer subject to the Word of God.

But how can you even say that to the person afflicted with the "positive thinking" that everything that has the appearance of 'being spiritual' is connected with the Holy Spirit, as he has no way to even understand what you're talking about?

 2013/10/28 0:24Profile

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


by PaulWest on 2013/10/24 22:26:24

In a nutshell:

OC - "Thou shalt; thou shalt not"
NC - "I will"

This is exactly the difference, between exodus 20 (ot)and hebews 8(nt). Also all the blessings of OT are external like wealth, prosperity etc. NT is internal, like christlikeness.


 2013/10/28 3:54Profile


This is exactly the difference, between exodus 20 (ot)and hebews 8(nt). Also all the blessings of OT are external like wealth, prosperity etc. NT is internal, like christlikeness.

that statement begs the question, when was the last time you really "ate" of the Word in the Tanakh....excuse, I mean "Old Testament"?

I have little desire (or time) to refute your comment, with "dueling verses"...I just prayerfully urge you to re-read the Old Testament, and through It and IN It, Messiah fact, in the New Testament, Scripture quoted, and the Vine itself, ALL comes from the Old Testament, centrality being the Two Royal Commandments Messiah Jesus gives to the "rich ruler"....the First is the Schma, and the Second being from Leviticus, "love your neighbor as yourself".

very simple, Jesus did not burden us with loads we cannot, the other 611 "laws", He broke it down to Two, and yet for 1700 years, its seems the Ingrafted Vines, that comprise the Church, have failed miserably in even obeying these Two Royal Commandments.

you said, " NT is internal, like Christlikeness"....yes , amen....but then I gaze at the "fruit" in light of the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17.....and again, a miserable epic, millennia long such an extent, any who BELONG to Messiah, should be tearing their garments, procuring some ashes, and doing some real face time in Godly grief...ITS THAT BAD.

That fig tree, outside of Jerusalem, that Jesus looked for fruit when he was hungry?....OH! that was a clear clear warning...."first to the Jew, then to the Gentile".

there's no fruit, and an angry old man like John MacArthur just underlined the poverty, and innate darkness of the human heart, especially the heart of the "religionist", which was amply demonstrated in constant "testing" and hectoring, of the religious "elite" of Jesus' day, the Pharisees modeled....and do you think the Pharisees "went away"?....oh no....they co-opted what is called "The Early Church" (ONE) which was called "The Way"....took haunt in rome, and called themselves "Christians"...and plunged the world into the sort of darkness we see this very day.

but even the prophet Habakkuk saw this day, and said,

"The oracle that Habakkuk the prophet saw.

Habakkuk's Complaint

O Lord, how long shall I cry for help,
and you will not hear?
Or cry to you “Violence!”
and you will not save?
Why do you make me see iniquity,
and why do you idly look at wrong?
Destruction and violence are before me;
strife and contention arise.
So the law is paralyzed,
and justice never goes forth.
For the wicked surround the righteous;
so justice goes forth perverted."

Habakkuk 1:1-4

and God answered....and look around, ESPECIALLY if you live in "Babylon" (Chaldea)

The Lord's Answer

"Look among the nations, and see;
wonder and be astounded.
For I am doing a work in your days
that you would not believe if told.
For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans,
that bitter and hasty nation,
who march through the breadth of the earth,
to seize dwellings not their own.
They are dreaded and fearsome;
their justice and dignity go forth from themselves.
Their horses are swifter than leopards,
more fierce than the evening wolves;
their horsemen press proudly on.
Their horsemen come from afar;
they fly like an eagle swift to devour.
They all come for violence,
all their faces forward.
They gather captives like sand.
At kings they scoff,
and at rulers they laugh.
They laugh at every fortress,
for they pile up earth and take it.
Then they sweep by like the wind and go on,
guilty men, whose own might is their god!”

who does THAT sound like?

so this "fenceline" being put up in the Word of wrong.

 2013/10/28 9:33

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807

 Re: really?

Brother HezWelling sees the Messiah in the Law and the Prophets. Likewise Brother Job also sees the Messiah...

Job 19:23
“Oh, that my words were written!
Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!

Job 19:24
That they were engraved on a rock
With an iron pen and lead, forever!

Job 19:25
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26
And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,

How did the Word of God communicate with Job?

Jeff Marshalek

 2013/10/28 19:35Profile


to ascertain the Mind of God, is akin to taking the tip of one's pinky finger, and skimming the surface of the ocean for a length of 12 inches.

 2013/10/29 5:51

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


'to ascertain the Mind of God, is akin to taking the tip of one's pinky finger, and skimming the surface of the ocean for a length of 12 inches.'

so in mercy and grace...

Jhn 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The Light of all men, enabled man to "skim the surface of the ocean for a length of 12 inches."

Jeff Marshalek

 2013/10/29 6:38Profile

Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas


Such a wonderful Thread and I greatly appreciate it.

I cannot help but consider that there is nothing new under the Son. With men coming to salvation in all ages by His Grace and never by law but rather by faith. To pit one testament and one covanent against each other is like pitting the begining of a good book to the end of it. Though we can jump to its last pages, what a great loss that comes from missing the beauty of what comes before it. A poor analogy at best but what glory Is to be discovered as our Christ experience builds within all the pages He has spoken.

 2013/10/29 10:43Profile

Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 710
San Diego

 Re: Getting there

Yes, a wonderful thread!

Raised in something of a fundamentalist milieu, I learned early on that the law was Old Testament and that we were no longer under law. In my mind I had visions of God "failing on the first try" and finally getting it together with New Testament and the introduction of Jesus.

But my personal failures and the nagging guilt of sin eventually assured me that indeed God had not really changed- the law still worked to condemn me when I walked in disobedience. Just as Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it."

A point of enlightenment for me was when, after my original baptism in the Spirit and the repentance that so magnified that event, I read and pondered the 119th Psalm. What kind of a spirit did the author have, to compose so lovingly his devotion to God through his devotion to the law?

I concluded that it was the Spirit of Christ moving within, putting the "music" of that psalm to paper. Where is that passage that mentions how the prophets made inquiries as to the things to come that stirred their hearts?

Indeed, even as the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, the Son of God has always been in the story, and in the hearts of those who respond to God.

"Oh Jerusalem that stones the prophets and those who were sent to you! How often I wanted to gather you as a hen gathers her chicks beneath her wings- but you would not!"

Hmmmmm. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. The same yesterday, today, and forever!

Tom Cameron

 2013/10/29 12:12Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Gen 12:1
Now the LORD had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.

Gen 12:2
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.

Gen 12:3
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Gen 12:4
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him,

The LORD, through the Holy Spirit, commanded Abram to leave his home for a land unknown to him. The LORD would "show" him in time where to go. Coupled with this command, the Lord also gives a promise to Abram. Look for the content of this promise. Then look to the Scriptures to see how the LORD over the process of time and circumstances proves to Abraham that He is faithful.

In Genesis 12:4 we are told that Abram did "as the LORD had spoken to him."

Was Abram declared righteous after Abram obeyed in Genesis 12:4?

Jeff Marshalek

 2013/10/29 19:27Profile

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