While this discussion of military chaplains is taking place. One may want to check out the thread where the AFA is classified as a hate group by the militiary.

This is starting to get serious.

Bear.

PP asks ........... "Can we at least agree that being a Chaplin during war time is exceptable and most likely some are even led of God for such positions such as was Oswald Chambers ?"

Brother I cannot agree with that. One must be led by the Spirit and by the word of God. Oswald Chambers is one of my favorite authors and a fellow Scotsman, but he was a man and not a perfect one. Men do not establish truth by their practices, Truth is already established by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.

I will say this, each man has to be convinced of his actions because each man will give an account to God. Consider this PP, if every confessing Christian in Europe had refused to take up arms, then the great wars of Europe could never have taken place. You see what great reward there could have been for obedience? Yet we see what utter devastation there was because of disobedience. Hundreds of millions killed, in fact more killed in the 20 century than all the wars in the history of the world combined. Perhaps it would have been better for the world to have been led by Scriptures and the early church fathers than clergy who convinced us that it was fine to take up arms? Just my thoughts............bro Frank

by appolus on 2013/10/15 10:30:00

PP asks ........... "Can we at least agree that being a Chaplin during war time is exceptable and most likely some are even led of God for such positions such as was Oswald Chambers ?"

Brother I cannot agree with that. One must be led by the Spirit and by the word of God. Oswald Chambers is one of my favorite authors and a fellow Scotsman, but he was a man and not a perfect one. Men do not establish truth by their practices, Truth is already established by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.

I will say this, each man has to be convinced of his actions because each man will give an account to God. Consider this PP, if every confessing Christian in Europe had refused to take up arms, then the great wars of Europe could never have taken place. You see what great reward there could have been for obedience? Yet we see what utter devastation there was because of disobedience. Hundreds of millions killed, in fact more killed in the 20 century than all the wars in the history of the world combined. Perhaps it would have been better for the world to have been led by Scriptures and the early church fathers than clergy who convinced us that it was fine to take up arms? Just my thoughts............bro Frank
________________________

Frank

I appreciated what you wrote here about each man being led by the Spirit and by the word of God. This discussion of military has come up a few times in our home as my boys grow into men. The topic is not an easy one and each time they ask me questions I find myself coming to the same conclusions JESUS was led as a lamb to the slaughter and HE is our example.

God bless
maryjane

Though it is much harder to be a Chaplain today, the mission field still exists. It is definitely more difficult to be a Christian today in the military than previous years (not just a Chaplain). Persecution always existed from ungodly people, but now the authorities are actually waging a subtle purge of Christians. A person desiring to be a Chaplain today to minister to the men and women in this mission field has more of a cost to count than in previous days. In previous days, Chaplains could minister unhindered, not so anymore.

bluinos,
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

RE: ///Truth is already established by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.///

I agree with this. God in His infiniate wisdom and Sovereignty choose not to give us an absolute answer on this subject in the Scriptures, that is why their is not absolute agreement on this subject.

Could it be that on subjects such as this and many others, that God speakes to different individuals at different times differently because of their different circumstances ?

When the Soldiers ,Centurions ,and Publicans approached God with their unworthyness they where excepted and their prayers where heard. The Scripture mentions no where that they where thus led to abandon their professions, even though they where indeed led to walk honestly in them.

When the Pharisee's brought their will worship and their public praying and their fastings often and their tithing of all they possesed and other such ascetism they where rejected.

I am not going to so espouse to any doctrine that has no proof text and is understood differently by many Spirit filled Christians, that would cause me to judge Oswald Chambers as being contrary to the will of God while He served as a Chaplin during war time.

I can understand and respect being personaly nonresistant, but the root of pacifism I personaly believe is rebellion.

Brother Frank wrote RE: ///what is NT Biblical grounds for stating that the political freedoms enjoyed in America are of God?" ...........bro Frank///

Brother Blain and Brother Frank, can we atleast agree that we are to Pray for our Rulers, Politicians and others in authority over us for the purpose that we might live a peaceable tranquil life ?

And if those prayers are indeed heard than can we agree that we are to Give God thanks for those prayers being heard ?

PP, Jesus told us to love our enemies and many have rebelled against that and killed not only their enemies but their brothers and sisters in Christ under the auspices of " The government." ( blanket bombing of cities, woman and children and the elderly) This is rebellion. As for pacifism , you would have to define that and how it pertains to Christians for me to comment on that. If by pacifism you mean not taking up the sword and killing, then I would disagree with your statement................bro Frank

Hi appolus


appolus wrote : ///As for pacifism , you would have to define that and how it pertains to Christians for me to comment on that.///

Someone whom is personally nonresistant turns the other cheek.

The Bible tells us :

rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


A pacifict on other hand is consumed with trying to take the revengers sword out of his hand (I am speaking of the revenger as in the context of the above Scripture)

The pacifict speaks evil of his country for going to war, no matter the cause. He believes that he has found a justifiable reason to rebel.

The personal non resistant person may refuse a combatant status in the military but they do not criticize the revenger when it excutes wrath such as America did on Nazi Germany.


Edit add : again : Brother Frank, can we atleast agree that we are to Pray for our Rulers, Politicians and others in authority over us for the purpose that we might live a peaceable tranquil life ?

And if those prayers are indeed heard than can we agree that we are to Give God thanks for those prayers being heard ?

Hi PP

Brother I think we can all agree that we are to pray for those in authority. And if God answers those prayers then we are to thank Him. This is what we are commanded to do in 1 Tim. 2:1-2.

I am praying for our Congress and President as regards the current fiscal crisis. I pray a wise and just consensus comes out if D. C.

Bro hopes tbis answers your question.

Bear.