| Re: |
I cannot speak for unbelievers or believers and in fact can only speak for myself. I believe the NT is clear when interpreted by the Holy Spirit, the Kingdom of Jesus Christ is not of this world, IF IT WAS, "then would my servants fight". I cannot bring myself to believe that we are called to overthrow governments with carnal weapons.
Not sure I really have an opinion yet but it is very interesting to consider and it will be debated more and more as this plays out. It may be important for churches to get the mind of God on this as it will certainly become a front burner issue for more and more people.
You are absolutely correct! But, I believe Jesus..."And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another." Mat_24:10
You have to understand that most of us only theorize in this forum and have not been in situations that truly test our theories (beliefs) and that includes myself. In the coming days, it will be evident what many are willing to do or not do and what each one believes. We read history, but until the things that happened 200 years ago, begin to happen to us, most of us don't really know how we will actually act. You and I will surely have more than an opinion if we live several more years, in fact, Whether one has opinions or convictions now, they will both be tested, soon.
I met an African pastor once from Uganda who was invited to speak in the states. I had to pick him up at his hotel and bring him to the church. All I had was a motorcycle but he did not seem to mind and even enjoyed it. When we had time to speak, I asked him what he would do if Muslims invaded his village to burn houses and kill people? He said, "it has already happened and that they defend themselves and fight back". I have thought about that answer for years especially when I find myself in discussions with others who have never experienced an attack on their life.
I have also learned that it is foolish to pretend to know what you would do in a situation where you have never been tested, so I won't say anything. But, if a similar thing ever happens to me and my family, and SI is still around, I will let you know what I did, Lord willing.
I can tell you that one way I am being tested today, is by what is happening in the USA regarding the overreach of our government and the "foundations" being destroyed. I am being tested to worry and become bitter and hateful and calloused and take things into my own hands. I refuse to do that yet recognize the propensity exists in me so I am drawing closer to the Lord and asking for faith and a soft heart realizing I lack both, many times. I know the love of many will grow cold in these days and don't want to be one of the "casualties".
| 2013/10/2 17:00|
| Re: |
The state is a fickle thing, bearmaster. No glory goes to it yet God will use it or work through it.
If Israel had rebelled within Babylon and not been good citizens, would Cyrus' actions have been different towards Israel?
It was Babylon that captured Israel, and Babylon that let them go even providing financing for the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
This is why God calls us to be good citizens no matter if we live in America, Russia or Venezuela. We are to respect the laws and honor the king trusting Him to turn the heart of the king rather than you or I overthrowing him. It is a much better testimony when God does His work.
This was written during the time Israel was occupied by a foreign army.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to EVERY ORDINANCE OF MAN for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
| 2013/10/2 17:08|
| Re: Christian TV host asks God for ‘military takeover’ of Obama’s presidency|
“I believe there are noble leaders in our military that love the republic and love everything we stand for—and they could seize the government,”
The artical that was posted conveniently failed to include his next statement :
he said. “I am not advocating this. I am just telling you what could happen. They could seize it and help restore the foundations, help restore the Constitution.”
| 2013/10/2 20:06||Profile|
| Re: |
where in the quote did I say that it was lawless to vote?
Hi again Frank,
You said it right here:
We are witnessing lawlessness whereby the country is held hostage and shut down by a minority
These congressmen are exercising the same rights that the democratic majority used to pass a law that was against the will of the people of the United States, on a party line vote.
My prayer for you is that you will get yourself into a Godly Fellowship where you will be challenged by Godly men to defend what you say rather than picking up your toys and going home OR pretending that you didn't say what you clearly said.
Your false accusation and implication that these men and women who voted against funding socialized health care are somehow 'lawless' needs to be repented of. The people in their district voted them in to office for that very reason, as much as you hate to hear it. These people create laws, so they are free to be either for or against it.
You can be sure that the spirit of anti-christ is close when we start saying that voting against anything is 'sinful' unless the Word is clear on the issue, such as abortion.
When we start adding things to the Word of God, we are in a dangerous area:
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll." `Revelation 22:18
How did I add to the Word of God friend?
You added to the Word of God to make their voting on a budget amendment (which you happen to disagree with) into a matter of sin where the actual Word of God is mute on the issue, thus adding to the Word of God.
| 2013/10/2 20:15||Profile|
| Re: |
RE: ///These congressmen are exercising the same rights that the democratic majority used to pass a law that was against the will of the people of the United States, on a party line vote.///
exactly. They are doing nothing against the law, so what they are doing is not lawless.
They relieze how detrimental this massive social expansion will be on our nation and they are doing what they feel is the desire of the people whom voted them into office,
I hope they do not blink first but I can not say that I am assured of that, The entertainment media is doing a wounderful smear job
| 2013/10/2 20:26||Profile|
| Re: |
Learjet , you said that I stated that they were lawless for voting. That is clearly not what I said and I do not believe it is lawless to vote, I only believe that it is lawless when you lose the vote to shut down the whole system because you could not convince the majority to vote with you.
You need to retract brother, it is clearly not right to falsely accuse another brother. You have a right to your opinion, but you do not have a right to change the facts. If you cannot apologise for falsely stating that I said it was lawless to vote, that is fine, I forgive you anyway brother.
What I wont engage is is infantile rhetoric. So God bless and God speed you on your way.........bro Frank
adit...ps here is the full quote so people can see that you just simply made that up brother. And by the way, when you take a text out of context and come up with a pre-text you get a lie.
The irony is that the present government shutdown is an attempt to strike down a law that was passed, whether you like the law or not, legitimately. It was passed by congress and the senate, signed into law, challenged up to the supreme court and tested in a general election where it was the made the central issue and the country chose. We are witnessing lawlessness whereby the country is held hostage and shut down by a minority who cannot and will not accept any other opinion other than their own.
| 2013/10/2 20:51|
| Re: |
appolus wrote ///I only believe that it is lawless when you lose the vote to shut down the whole system because you could not convince the majority to vote with you.///
I was of the impression that the national government was going to shut down if a budget was not agree'd apoun,
No budget was agreed apoun, one side is no more responsable for the government shuting down than the other side.
So their is no need to call the one side lawless, and act as though the other side is working within their rights.
But what I really find disturbing brother is that you are discussing anything concerning governmental affairs, based on you observations, it just seems contridictory to me in the light of the view that you proposed in the other recent disscussions that we have had.
| 2013/10/2 21:17||Profile|
| Re: |
“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
I've done exactly what the Lord says to do here, I went to you privately about 6 months ago with the same issue to which your response was to unfriend me and send me basically the same stuff that you have here "Well I haven't done anything wrong" "I haven't sinned and inferred that these congressman were just doing their job that they were elected to do".
I went to you personally, this time I went with a few other brothers who can clearly read what I wrote, if you were in my personal fellowship I would take you to the elders and ask them to render a decision on it, I stand by what I have written and it won't change.
I would counsel everyone in this forum to MARK THIS MAN and not eat with him under any circumstances until there is an air of repentance and humility about himself.
| 2013/10/2 21:22||Profile|
| Re: |
Hmm. I think I see the spirit of Geneva here. The scary thing is this is the spirit that will persecute the remnant.
| 2013/10/2 21:51|
| Re: Christian TV host asks God for ‘military takeover’ of Obama’s presidency|
Charisma news account :
In his weekly Prophetic Perspective on Current Events broadcast, Rick Joyner predicted the destruction of America’s republic—maybe even during President Obama’s second term.
Joyner prefaced the Internet broadcast entitled “Has Democracy Failed?” by warning viewers that he would say some things that may be shocking. The segment was filmed on the day before the government shutdown.
From Joyner’s prophetic perspective, the republic of the United States of America is crumbling because of tyranny from the government and from the people.
“There’s no way this republic can last much longer," he said. "It may not last through Obama’s second term. There are a lot of people who feel it can’t. There are forces at work right now seeking to undermine and destroy the republic. There’s almost a glib and joyful disregard of the Constitution, a belittling of the Constitution. We can’t make it without that. That’s our foundation, our moorings. We’re heading for serious tyranny—for a terrible tyranny right now.”
Despite his strong words, Joyner is not all doom and gloom. He believes the republic can be restored. His heart’s cry? “Don’t let us be totally destroyed. Please raise up those who will save us.”
As Joyner sees it, no election is going to fix America’s problems because the system is broken. He believes our only hope is a military takeover—martial law.
“I believe there are noble leaders in our military that love the republic and love everything we stand for—and they could seize the government,” he said. “I am not advocating this. I am just telling you what could happen. They could seize it and help restore the foundations, help restore the Constitution.”
Although Joyner is not calling for martial law, he is calling for a radical change. The housing market has made great strides toward recovery, and the government is reporting some positive economic signs, but Joyner's still not convinced the worst is behind us. In fact, Joyner said the nation is “tottering over the abyss right now, and any little breeze could push us over.”
Still, he’s not without hope for revival.
“There are many great signs of revival and awakening in America—incredible things happening," he said. "I believe we’re going to see a Third Great Awakening in America within the next couple of years. It’s going to be massive. It’s going to transform America. It could help restore us to the foundations.”
Joyner also predicted an “inevitable” collapse of the U.S. dollar but said it could lead to a jubilee—a new beginning if the right people are in leadership. His conclusion? We have to turn back to God as a nation.
Some are ridiculing Joyner for his prophetic prospective. What do I think? I don't have an opinion, per se, but I do have a prophetic word that I hold tight to. On April 21, 2007—before I had ever heard of Barack Obama—the Lord woke me up in the middle of the night to give me this prophetic word:
"There is a great awakening coming to this nation. For I have heard your cries, and I long to heal your land. I am a covenant God, and I will not forget the covenant I made with your Founding Forefathers. Yes, there will be a shaking, but the foundations will not crack, and they will not crumble. Only those things which can be shaken will be shaken, that the sin in the land may be laid bare.
"Repentance. I require repentance from My people who have through the generations allowed the enemy to take ground in this nation. I require repentance for the abortions and for the prayerlessness. I require repentance for the apathy and for the idolatry. You shall have no other gods before Me. I am indeed the God of America.
"Yes, there is a great awakening coming to this nation. I am the Author of it, and I will bring it to pass. Just turn from your wicked ways and humble yourselves. Stand in the gap, and make up the hedge. I am the Lord, and I am a warrior. I will not leave or forsake this country. I will fight through you and with you to regain what has been lost.
"Be encouraged now because as you go forth boldly with My Word and My Spirit, there will be the sound of truth, and it will prevail in the land. Speak boldly and clearly, and watch as the mighty men arise to take their positions on the wall and in the churches and in the marketplaces. For I am raising up deliverers and reformers in this generation who will not shrink back at the challenge that is coming in the days ahead.
"Yes, it will grow darker before My light shines brightly from this nation again. But the light has not been extinguished and will not be extinguished. The time to rise up is now. I am calling you to war. I am calling you to repentance. I am calling you to My side. I am the captain of the hosts. I am calling you to victory. I am calling you to destiny. Will you answer?"
| 2013/10/2 22:03||Profile|