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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Scripture Proof - 'Pretrib' Is Not The Truth

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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

No read it plainly all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life.

What about those who names are written in the book of life they won't take the name..

Again Rev 15:2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark[a] and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God.

Those who got the victory over the beast, his image and his name are you implying that they got the victory through death?

Again 1 Thess 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Those who are alive... can't get plainer than that...

Edited to remove a bit


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Colin Murray

 2013/7/7 16:51Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Zac Poonen

proudpapa wrote : "Zac did not recklessly make the statement, but instead he sincerely came to that conclusion from 50 years of studying the Scriptures."

I have not listened to much of it yet but here is a Verse by Verse Bible Study of the book of Revelations by Zac Poonen.

http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/verse_by_verse.php?book=vbv_revelation

 2013/7/7 23:58Profile









 Re: Zac Poonen

Jesus: Victor over Religion - Revelation Series

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revel.html

 2013/7/8 0:05
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Quote: "Those who are alive... can't get plainer than that..."

True, and direct to the point. "They" are definitely not dead and not killed by the antichrist. Except Paul addresses them not as "they" but as "we". He is writing to the saints from his own perspective when he says "WE which are alive":

1 Thessalonians 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

In other words "WE which are alive" are not leaving ahead of those currently asleep that are awaiting the first resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"WE which are alive" is the main group in his message, the ones that Paul identifies with and is speaking to prophetically, that "we-group" is the intended audience of the message, so he clearly gives us the hope we need by comforting us that we indeed can be alive at that time spoken of. Isn't that a great and comforting message?. I think yes, it is. Never saw 1 Thessalonians this way before today, Paul's message of hope to send us a clear message to built up our faith at that time, excellent!

Yet, we need an ear to hear it, it's for the saints with faith that are called to patience to endure:

Revelation 13:9  If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 2013/7/8 5:47Profile
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re: three and a half years

Sorry, I'm just catching up; lots to do.

Beloved Staff, Thanks for you contributions. It would be edifying to know what you have learned and understand regarding Elijah and the three and a half years. Can you post your thoughts.

You brother

David


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david

 2013/7/9 4:52Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Quote proudpapa "I know you not" would appear to me, that they where not saved. "

They are virgins so they are pure/saved

They could not have been unsaved because they had "lamps" and they had oil,and their lamps were lit.(All attributes of the believer).

'Know" in CONTEXT with a bride would denote intimacy.

They are without a shadow of doubt a group of Christians left behind.

 2013/7/11 21:41Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Quote "What about those who names are written in the book of life they won't take the name.."

What it says is that those that take the mark ARE NOT in the book of life.
What it does not say is where those that ARE in the book of life are at that time.

You can't have it both ways.You can't say that every single human on the face of the earth is worshiping the devil man(Note;every single human being) and in the same instant think that there are those "in Christ" that are scurrying about dodging the massive army of the antichrist for 7 years.

This is clearly in contradiction with the martyrs.
Their number is fulfilled DURING the tribulation period.
That makes it impossible for any christian to be killed in the latter part of the trib period.

 2013/7/11 21:57Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Z Poonen ""But as I studied the Scriptures carefully, honestly. I discovered it's not true.
I searched the Scriptures, the New Testament,, I could not find one verse. I studied it for 50 years,,, not one verse that taught that. ""

I cannot find one verse that teaches a post trib rapture....not one.

 2013/7/11 22:24Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """'Know" in CONTEXT with a bride would denote intimacy."""

Not in context with the Bride, but in context with those the Father has given Him, as His own, the five virgins with oil in their lamps.

Matthew 25:12 But <de> he answered <apokrinomai> and said <epo>, Verily <amen> I say <lego> unto you <humin>, I know <eido> you <humas> not <ou>.

"I know"; Strong's Greek Dictionary
1492. eido
Search for G1492 in KJVSL
eidw eido i'-do
a primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent 3700 and 3708; properly, to see (literally or figuratively); by implication, (in the perfect tense only) to know:--be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot. Compare 3700.

"you"; Strong's Greek Dictionary
5209. humas
Search for G5209 in KJVSL
umaV humas hoo-mas'
accusative case of 5210; you (as the objective of a verb or preposition):--ye, you (+ -ward), your (+ own).

"not"; Strong's Greek Dictionary
3756. ou
Search for G3756 in KJVSL
ou ou oo ouk ook, and (before an aspirate) ouch ookh
a primary word; the absolute negative (compare 3361) adverb; no or not:--+ long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but. See also 3364, 3372.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/7/12 22:34Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Hi psalm1

psalm1 wrote //// 'Know" in CONTEXT with a bride would denote intimacy.////

The phrase "I know you not." defined by other places in the Scripture, in which the same or similar phrase is used would denote not being saved.














 2013/7/13 7:50Profile





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