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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Scripture Proof - 'Pretrib' Is Not The Truth

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proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

psalm1 wrote ////Oil =signifies the HS in scripture.
White= pure,righteous in sripture
Virgin= pure and righteous as in saved or redeemed in scripture.
Know concerning a man and woman= intercourse or consumation.
this is just applying the obvious.
You cannot possibly reconcile the false supposition that virgin is appplied to the unsaved as you are alluding.////

I do believe that the virgins whom are called 'foolish' and whoms 'lamps went out', of whom the 'door was shut' and told by the Lord 'I know you not', are indeed unsaved.

Verse 14 "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods."

all three are called the travelling man's "own servants" and they all where recipients of the travelling mans goods.

But the unprofitable servant was cast out.





 2013/7/29 10:28Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

A question for pretrib ?

What are your thoughts regarding the rapture on the Christians Children whom are not old enough to know their right hand from their left and have not yet been saved ? Will they be left and abandoned or will they get a free pass since their parents are saved ?

 2013/7/30 23:15Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re: Proudpapa

Careful there, Proudpapa! There are so many questions like that that defy the cloudy notions of the Pretrib doctrine.

Do people's sinful clothes fall off on the way up? Do their white robes come with undergarments?

My questions range to the financial. Will God pay down the car loans of the rising saints? How about their massive credit card debt and mortgages?

I am in a special situation, my business supplied product to some church people in another state, a good faith deal where I was to be paid when they received the goods. They stiffed me. Do they get to go in the rapture too?

I can certainly forgive them on a personal level but they still owe the money, and as of this moment they are holding stolen property. They have not asked for forgiveness, by the way.

Just curious how all this stuff works out...


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2013/7/31 0:40Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """Just curious how all this stuff works out..."""

I am sure God can work it all out, He seems pretty good at working things out. My money (faith) is on God, If He created the heavens and the earth and can bring forth children from rocks unto Abraham, I think I will trust He has it well in hand. Also that He can birth the Spirit of His Son in a person and make him a son of God, His offspring. WoW!

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/8/2 2:46Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Quote by proudpapa;"I do believe that the virgins whom are called 'foolish' and whoms 'lamps went out', of whom the 'door was shut' and told by the Lord 'I know you not', are indeed unsaved."

In that case,according to the parable,Jesus turnesd away those that met every qualification as the saved.

You also have the unsaved described as pure,possessing oil,and then running out,and the same unsaved going out and "buying" salvation,but then told they are not welcome.

In short,you now have no difference between the saved and the unsaved if possessing "ssome" salvation is almost as good as posessing plenty of salvation.

The fact that they all had oil would now become"some salvation is never as good as plenty of salvation".

The unsaved,according to your interprretation,are also found as watching and waiting along with the saved,and looking foreward to meeting the savior.

You also have to depart from the blatantly obvious and go extrabiblical

Bizarre indeed

 2013/8/4 1:04Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

sidewalk;"Careful there, Proudpapa! There are so many questions like that that defy the cloudy notions of the Pretrib doctrine."

Postrib is so poorly thought out that I can not believe,with all the teaching of scripture concerning those raptured and found in heaven DURING the trib period,you can make such reckless statements against those using scripture,and not the conjecture of the postrib adherants.

Permission from the chinese persecuted saints to read obvious scripture?

Questions of underwear,debt,and children?

falsely depictimg Christ's loving remnant bride waiting for His appearing as nominal,decieved,baby "christians"

Some dream of a girl that is so debunked it is ludicrous?

Some made up rule about "first belief"?

All debunked, and all postrib "notions"

You really think scripture can be acurately understood with the human mind?

Postrib is increasingly apealing to "fairness"

As if God Has suddenly redefined himself as needing man's permission to make decisions.

consider this "fairness" of God.
Mat 20;11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way:....."

God is obviously not bound to any human's private interpretation of "fairness"

Scripture,correctly interpreted,does not depart from context,or the harmony God placed into it.

I have yet to see any postrib adherant seriously attempt to reconcile Jesus' promise to his bride of mansions in heaven,along with the wedding supper,the clear declaration of the saints,the 144k,and the 2 witneses all in heaven during the trib period,not to mention that all on the planet will have to worship the AC or die,along with "There will be buying,selling ,and marriages when the groom comes for the bride...........which is another utter impossibility with a postrib rapture.(the bizarre butchering of the 10 virgin parable comes to mind)

ALL scripture,all clear,clear teaching,and my doctrine does not REQUIRE belittleing,personal attacks,personal defamation,or ascribing some cloudy notion that postrib originated from blah,blah.blah.

All I have ever seen from postrib adhereants is a "7th trump/1st resurrection shell game and the "clincher" mat 24.

I suppose it escapes them that, yes,we also believe Jesus comes back AFTER the trib period.

I have never,ever seen any postrib adherant preface matt 24 IN CONTEXT. They skip 3 vital ingredients.
1) Jesus is answering 3 questions from the disciples
2) Where,in the bloody mayhem and trashing of the planet,is commerce possible?
3)They claim,erroneously, mat 24;31 is the rapture when it clearlly,clearly says the elect are gathered,not from earth,but from heaven.".....gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."


For them to say "I disagree" would seem to be a stretch,since the weight of scripture dwarfs their conjectures.

But to dismiss so much testimony of God's word,and the mockery and false ascribing of plain junk to those with the upper hand,is beyond birarre.






 2013/8/4 2:22Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Quote armkelly:"Psalm1 you are pretty much wasting your time trying to be reasonable or rational. Talk about brethren as cattle to be bred like dumb animals, talk about 97% of all humanity perishing or else talk about endless theologies and vanities and you'll find a welcome and a ready amen. "


Thanks,
It is comical though,the wierd 10 virgin parable dance the postrib adherants do.

It is like God has put up a huge bilboard in our front yard,and we still can't see it.

If there was a "pinnacle" of all heaven and the God of purpose,it would be the Marriage/consumation of the bride with Jesus.

Their error,is in not paying any attention to the most important thing in the universe.
IOW they are "tribulation prism" oriented instead of Bride/Groom oriented.

They litterally are blinded by their own "prism"

 2013/8/4 2:37Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Bizarre indeed

Hi psalm1,

psalm1 wrote//// In that case,according to the parable,Jesus turnesd away those that met every qualification as the saved.////

I am not convinced that they did meet "every qualification as the saved, they where called "foolish" "whoms lamps went out because they did not have oil in their vessels", whom where told that they where not known of the Bridegroom"


psalm1 wrote ////You also have the unsaved described as pure,possessing oil,and then running out,and the same unsaved going out and "buying" salvation,but then told they are not welcome.////

The five where not described as pure, but instead they where specifically described as "foolish"

"foolish" mwrovß, Moros,
Strongs definition: foolish, impious, godless

the "running out" was because they did not possess "oil in their ((vessels))"

psalm1 wrote ///In short,you now have no difference between the saved and the unsaved if possessing "ssome" salvation is almost as good as posessing plenty of salvation.
The fact that they all had oil would now become"some salvation is never as good as plenty of salvation".///

1. The saved where called wise, the others are called "foolish"

2. The saved where known, the others are "not known"

3. The saved took oil in their "vesseles", the other did not possess oil in their "vesseles".

4. The saved "went in with him to the marriage", the others "the door was shut"




psalm1 wrote ////The unsaved,according to your interprretation,are also found as watching and waiting along with the saved,and looking foreward to meeting the savior.////

"they all slumbered and slept."" but the wise took oil in their vessels"...

The foolish had no oil in their "vessels".

psalm1 wrote ////You also have to depart from the blatantly obvious and go extrabiblical
Bizarre indeed////

I find it Bizarre that you feel that I am departing from the blatantly obvious and going extrabiblical.





















 2013/8/4 3:21Profile









 Re: Scripture Proof - 'Pretrib' Is Not The Truth

There are of course many threads of understanding attendant to the Lord’ return and no one is going to be able to work it out as though a simple explanation would suffice. On the other hand there are a few central tenets of understanding which even a babe in Christ ought to be able to grasp. Two of these are the mercy and justice of the Father and the other is the righteousness and justice of the Father. Both form the very centrality of the meaning and evidence of the Father’ love as we are able to comprehend it in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ. Some people are so self righteous in their attitudes that they actually miss the true mercy of God. Thank God that they are not on that basis disqualified from that mercy so far as eternal life is concerned, else they too would be found to be considerably more than foolish.

As a matter of fact I can say without doubt that some of the most offensive people I have ever met have been believers. So many are self righteous and arrogant. At times I truly wonder if some brethren have received a knowledge of the Father at all. Then I remember that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever (anybody) who believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. It is this basic profound and wonderful reality which we lose sight of. Why? Because we imagine that we are somehow righteous ourselves. Blessed is the man or woman who knows that they are a sinner and never lose sight of it. In fact it is impossible to lose sight of it when we have just once caught sight of the Father’ great love for us. The great love of the Father is the basis for understanding who we really are in ourselves because we ought to be condemned along with the world, yet we are not. Instead the Father has given us Christ crucified for sin and in this giving He has given us life.

The church has made a rod for its own back and the rod will be laid and the outcome is already written. It has to do with rewards and it has to do with tribulation and not great tribulation. It has to do with the wedding feast and it has to do with Christ Himself and His kingdom. It has to do with His righteous demand on our lives......those who have believed in Him. All the rest is a matter of revelation. None of it will be a matter of opinion and none of it will be turned aside by foolish men who though, as with all men, see through a darkened glass, have made for themselves a foolish trap from which their feet will never be set free unless they repent of their own abilities to comprehend that which cannot be naturally comprehended. It is all a matter of revelation and none a matter of opinion or effort. The haste with which some brethren so easily assign others to eternal destruction is appalling and I for one have determined to have nothing more to do with those who cannot see the measure of the Father’ great love. Let those who believe they have authority to judge do so, their reward will become visible and it will not be hidden for a thousand years.

 2013/8/4 4:06
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Re proudpapa;

The foolish had oil in their lamps.
The foolish were virgins
The foolish were waiting for Jesus
The foolish had the same "light" as the wise.
The foolish heard the cy at midnight,along with the wise.
The foolish res[ponded to the call,along with the wise.
The foolish asked for the missing ingrediant,FROM THE WISE.
The wise inferred they could impart that ingredient,but refused it on a "time" basis and reason.
The ONLY difference is the foolish did NOT have the EXTRA VESSELS with EXTRA oil.
(As in carnal believers vs spiritual believers)

You have painted yourself into a proverbial corner in ascribing reckless attributes to the parable.


You are ,I suppose, unaware of the different categories of believers.

Baby
Adolescent
Mature

cold
hot
lukewarm


carnal
spiritual

They are all considered brethren.(according to the WORD)


Now you have your first clue in getting a handle on the parable.


Please explain how you persist in ascribing "salvation" to the foolish in the face all that you now know of the parable.

 2013/8/4 11:33Profile





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