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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : For those seeking entire sanctification.

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

The first sin I have any recollection of is when I was 4 years old. From that day forward I knew what sin was, and to this day I still know what sin is, within this time, from 4-73, I have guilt, sometimes wishing I could die, but have not been able to resist to the shedding of blood, only His counts in cleansing me that I might live because I sinned and still sin. Maybe I don't sin as much or as serious as I used to, but sin is still in me.

Praise God Jesus took all this sin blotted it out by His Blood and nailing it all to the Cross, for everyone that believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and what He did, He did for the whole world, If we believe what He did.
If the whole world believed That Jesus Christ is the Son of God, all would be saved and going to be in the Father's house in the resurrection. Convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit and righteousness in Christ and judgment.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Do we believe this? If we believe this, are our sins, past, present and future blotted out?

1 John 5:9-13 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If this is true, why did God give us; 1 John 1:7-10 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Either Jesus Christ takes away all sin, past, present and future, or He does not.

Who forgives our sins, and is faithful to do so? What is the mechanism that takes away sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness? The faithfulness of God in Christ Jesus and our participation in agreeing with God and confessing our sin.

I have hated sin for a long time, hating myself because I could not be perfect, always shedding tears when seeing others overcome adversity or calamity in war or in society. I want so bad to be a good soldier for God and yet I fall so short. Praise God through Christ Jesus I am to my Father perfect because of the Christ in me.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is my works, by His works that work in me mightily.
This is how I show my faith and ongoing sanctification. He keeps working, I keep laboring in His Works.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2013/5/25 19:24Profile
Firetime
Member



Joined: 2010/4/17
Posts: 15


 Re:

You talk a lot of sense bearmaster.
If only more people would teach this, we would avoid the extremes of dry legalism on one hand and emergent saddleback permissiveness on the other...and the type of gospel that says, evetually, well we cant possibly BEAT sin, so lets quit trying, and embrace and celebrate it instead...
When I read about Elijah, when he said "take my life Lord, I am no better than my ancestors" I think that was when the penny dropped so to speak, he finally discerned his adamic origins-and realised he could do nothing about it. Maybe he himself had previously been subject to a sinless perfection delusion, like what the pharisees generally displayed when they faced Jesus, we fast, we tithe, our father is Abraham etc etc?

"To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

"If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall you also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are on the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience: In the which you also walked some time, when you lived in them. But now you also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do you. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also you are called in one body; and be you thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

"Have mercy on me, O God, according to your loving kindness: according to the multitude of your tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against you, you only, have I sinned, and done this evil in your sight: that you might be justified when you speak, and be clear when you judge. Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, you desire truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part you shall make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which you have broken may rejoice. Hide your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from your presence; and take not your holy spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation; and uphold me with your free spirit"

 2013/5/26 2:55Profile









 Re: Philip

The first sin I have any recollection of is when I was 4 years old.

-------------------------------------------------------------

That is very interesting, you remembering, as they have tested children aged 3 years and 4 years, leaving them alone in a room with candies/sweets on a table in front of them and told not to eat any. The children all took one or more. When they returned and asked if any candies had been eaten, the 3 year olds told the truth but the 4 year olds, lied.

bearmaster

I asked specifically at the start of this thread, that those who oppose the doctrine of entire sanctification, do not join the discussion as there is another thread dealing with defending the doctrine. Please repost there and I will answer you. Thank you.

 2013/5/26 3:28









 Re: For those seeking entire sanctification.

Quote:
Man always imagines himself at a higher stage spiritually than he really is and many come to Christ to have their sins forgiven and think they have been crucified, but they have not taken part in the transaction by renouncing sin in totality, so they are believers but not yet Christians. If we are dead to sin then it has no part in us. Krautfrau



I suppose that if we get to estimating our spiritual condition as somehow a thing of stages we will indeed stumble because the very idea itself defeats the reality which Christ has intended for us. No doubt sanctification at a personal level can be gained or lost just as the natural man gains or loses his ability [willingness] to walk in dependance on the Spirit working in us. For all that, anyone who believes could be in an instant transformed in their thinking and with or without comprehending it, walk in a manner pleasing to God. The very least of the brethren could become an example of Christ likeness and we would in comprehending that realise that the same possibility is set before each one of us.

If we were to formalise an understanding of this then it would of necessity be established on a reality which is Christ Himself crucified for sin. As it is written “because One died for all, all have died”. How this is possible is a mystery and yet it is at hand for all who have believed because the life which we received by faith in Christ is a crucified life hidden in Christ…...It is the risen Lord. In short, success or failure in our walk will always hinge on knowing Christ Himself as the Risen Lord. Yet the basis of resurrection is itself death of the cross. The more we desire to truly know Christ, beyond believing into Him, the more we will see the victory which is itself hidden, because it has not yet been revealed. Until Christ is revealed it will remain hidden. No one who is born again can truly love sin as a way of life. Though doctrines of demons and a seared conscience make for a sinful and fleshy walk, obvious and open sin cannot ever be acceptable. If it were not for the fact that we are able to confess our sins daily, we would be the most miserable of all people. Yet this confessing our daily sins is a childish thing, even though it is precious, because it is simply the beginning of the growth which we must all attain to and yet which we cannot and must not fabricate. It has to be real to be of any usefulness to the Father. It cannot and must not be forced. It must be Christ in us the hope of glory.

I don’t know if this is the intention or the effect in this post. But there is a move happening right now which asserts that a person is not a true believer unless they have the full evidence of a righteous life. Well if that is true who among us is not yet perishing? It is a blasphemy against the truth of the finished work of Christ because it is placing more benefit on works, than it is on comprehending faith and its effect unto regeneration. I think there is coming a stand any time soon in which the outcome will be rejection of many by a self righteous few. Praise God for that. I would rather be completely hated and rejected than walk with a self righteous man. And whilst I cannot reject him, his rejection of me would be a blessing and a release from responsibility towards him. When that time comes those who are yet fleshy may well learn to walk in the Spirit and in that please God. And it will come.

 2013/5/26 6:15
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: For those seeking entire sanctification.

The Sunday school announcement today was on this topic, It was Oswald Chambers “white funeral”:

"We were buried with Him . . . that just as Christ was raised from the dead . . . even so we also should walk in newness of life —Romans 6:4

No one experiences complete sanctification without going through a “white funeral”-the burial of the old life. If there has never been this crucial moment of change through death, sanctification will never be more than an elusive dream. There must be a “white funeral,” a death with only one resurrection-a resurrection into the life of Jesus Christ. Nothing can defeat a life like this. It has oneness with God for only one purpose— to be a witness for Him.

Have you really come to your last days? You have often come to them in your mind, but have you really experienced them? You cannot die or go to your funeral in a mood of excitement. Death means you stop being. You must agree with God and stop being the intensely striving kind of Christian you have been. We avoid the cemetery and continually refuse our own death. It will not happen by striving, but by yielding to death. It is dying— being “baptized into His death” (Romans 6:3).

Have you had your “white funeral,” or are you piously deceiving your own soul? Has there been a point in your life which you now mark as your last day? Is there a place in your life to which you go back in memory with humility and overwhelming gratitude, so that you can honestly proclaim, “Yes, it was then, at my ’white funeral,’ that I made an agreement with God.”

“This is the will of God, your sanctification . . .” (1 Thessalonians 4:3). Once you truly realize this is God’s will, you will enter into the process of sanctification as a natural response. Are you willing to experience that “white funeral” now? Will you agree with Him that this is your last day on earth? The moment of agreement depends on you."

 2013/5/26 15:13Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

by krautfrau on 2013/5/23 22:18:07
"""However, I cannot agree with his premis, that, all we require to be complete, is to see that Christ is within us.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

If we don't believe in Christ, there is nothing for all who don't believe. Not believing, "repent and believe" this is our repentance, to believe in Christ.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

There is only One who makes us whole; Jesus Christ, and all that takes is to believe that He is the literal biological Son of God born of a woman, "Mary".

"Thy faith," believing or faithing has made you whole, and even to the raising of the dead.

Mark 5:34-36 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague. While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Why was she healed? Why was her daughter raised from the dead? She became whole, (complete) in believing and receiving Jesus at least by the works He did. Who gave her the faith to make her whole? By His works.
By whose Faith that is now come after the Cross, when we believe, it makes us whole by His Faith that has come, now we are complete and are a new creation.

John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

How? John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

What do we receive that makes us complete? John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

What sin do we need to repent of? John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

By the faith of Christ, by the Holy Spirit and by the Spirit in us we are now partially complete, fully in Spirit by the Spirit of Christ in us, becoming complete in soul/mind By the Holy Spirit (Parakleet), teacher of who He is that is born again in us. Will be complete when we receive on resurrection day the same complete spiritual body that Jesus Christ has and is.

We are His by His Spirit that is in us.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Are we complete in Spirit? Completely by His Spirit that is in us.

Are we becoming complete by the Mind of Christ that is in us? Becoming complete by the Holy Spirit in us.

Will we be complete in body? Yes.

Completeness is relative to where we stand in Christ and He alone is our new creature life.

IN Christ:Phillip

And new Life of Christ in us, by His Faith and His Spirit in us.


_________________
Phillip

 2013/6/1 18:16Profile









 Re:

Although we are complete when we are in Him and He in us, there is no way we can just believe it is so unless we have made a holy transaction with God by sacrificing ourselves and as Oswald Chambers wrote, attended our white funeral.

If we are dead in Christ then we are overcomers and sin has no place in us.

Many chant words they read in the scriptures that have no bearing on them. Believing something is so when it is not is a lie and the truth is not in us.

 2013/6/26 9:24









 Re:

amrkelly wrote :

I don’t know if this is the intention or the effect in this post. But there is a move happening right now which asserts that a person is not a true believer unless they have the full evidence of a righteous life. Well if that is true who among us is not yet perishing? It is a blasphemy against the truth of the finished work of Christ because it is placing more benefit on works, than it is on comprehending faith and its effect unto regeneration. I think there is coming a stand any time soon in which the outcome will be rejection of many by a self righteous few. Praise God for that. I would rather be completely hated and rejected than walk with a self righteous man. And whilst I cannot reject him, his rejection of me would be a blessing and a release from responsibility towards him. When that time comes those who are yet fleshy may well learn to walk in the Spirit and in that please God. And it will come.

-----------------------------------------------------------

It is rather a blasphemy to say that the power of God cannot deliver us from sin in this life. We were created to be sinless, in this life not the next. Christ died to return us to that position, now not in the future. Those who claim He has delivered them do so by faith and not works and know it is His righteousness alone that enables them to stand.


 2013/6/26 9:30
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re:


As I do not know how to copy / or bring something over to this post,
that was written on another post on this IPad,...."General Topics" "I have found the Key",
and I feel this post,has some of the same type subject,....maybe you could please look back at that ?

Lovingly,
elizabeth


"

 2013/6/26 17:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It is rather a blasphemy to say that the power of God cannot deliver us from sin in this life. We were created to be sinless, in this life not the next. Christ died to return us to that position, now not in the future. Those who claim He has delivered them do so by faith and not works and know it is His righteousness alone that enables them to stand. krautfrau



Yes I agree Brenda it would be a blasphemy to say that the power of God cannot deliver us from sin [even] in this life. Sometimes when I think about that possibility it seems hopeless and at other times the Spirit makes it a wonderful truth and in that is hope and in hope there is momentary longing. Then I find myself asking whether I am minded to pay the price for the fullness of it. I have to say that in myself despite the grace of God I am not willing. In the spirit I truly desire it. It is just one hope and it is balanced by the knowledge that unless the Lord Himself is the evidence of it, it will be just a man and nothing more. Then I fall back and remember that Christ is in us both to will and to work according to His good please. After that there is nothing left to do than to confess my sins and press on.

When I read your post earlier I should have obeyed the leading of the Spirit and made the connection visible which was expressed before time, to the thread which Elizabeth has referred to. Here is the link which Elizabeth has made in obedience.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=49451&forum=35&9

 2013/6/26 18:29





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