hi, forbid them not ,for whosoever is not against us is with us...Jesus.jimp

Matthew 7:15..Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:11..and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

Guess I must have missed the post were someone actually pointed the finger at someone. I have seen many post here, were people have posted in general, we need to beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. So sometimes just because someone reads something spoken in general, we all have to be real careful,unless you can interrupt peoples minds, because in cyberspace it's really hard to interpret a persons, heart and mind and spirit. So in my opinion, someone finger pointing, could be just as guilty as the person accused of name calling.

I truly believe social networks like Facebook are guilty of a lot of "purpose driven" general posts. A lot of folks speak in general there, in a cowardly way, to keep from addressing the person like a man or women. This was "one" of the reasons I got off FB long ago. Bottom line is if we don't know a persons heart and mind and spirit, I would be real reserved on pointing a finger at anyone.

I have witnessed some name calling here, but most of us are mature enough to know, it's generally done in the very most heated debates. I don't condone it, and no we should not do it, but we should not lie, we should not commit adultery, if any married man here has ever looked at another woman with lust in his heart, well he is guilty of committing adultery. Personally I don't know of any man Christian or not, that has not been guilty of this.

These scriptures come to mind:

Matthew 7:1-5
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

_________________
Bill

Some great thoughts in this thread.

_________________
Robert Wurtz II

It is one thing to refuse to acknowledge your brother because he is in some persistent sin, and will not repent after being asked several times, it is another thing to call him a wolf. By trying to draw out the reality of what a wolf really is my purpose was to show that there is such a man as can be called a wolf, and at the same time to show that such a man is never a brother. It isn’t simply a case of declining a brother because of his conduct or because of deception.

The business of deception and the depth and complexity of deception, including the whole business of apostasy in the church is really a separate matter. In truth this subject of apostasy is not a balance to resisting false accusations it is a separate matter altogether. In my own experience I have observed that believers have no idea how to deal with a wolf. This is because he is not actually understood for what he is and therefore brethren if they have any concerns tend to look for doctrinal reasons to reject him.

It is interesting and informative when we read the passage from Kings chapter thirteen regarding the man of God and the old man. If we read that passage very carefully and with an open mind what we find is truly remarkable. Both men were prophets, both men had their words established by witnesses and both men were serving God. In finality the old man who seemingly lied when he said he had been spoken to by an angel wasn’t lying about being a prophet. His last words were “ah my brother” as he laid the man of God in his own grave. Nothing in this account has to do with apostasy. It has to do with obedience. The old man isn’t directly about the Lord’ business nevertheless he is used of God to test the obedience of the man of God, who is. I don’t suppose this will be easily understood.

False doctrines and heresy, apostasy and idolatry are all matters which concern those who believe. In the Scriptures it is Israel who is judged for her idolatry and held accountable for her adultery. Therefore it is Israel who is called unfaithful and apostate. When Israel came against Benjamin as accounted in Judges the basis of this was deep offence which necessitated both repentance and restitution of justice by Benjamin. When this failed Israel felt compelled to go up against Benjamin because there was no king to seek for judgement. Yet before they went up they expressly asked the Lord which tribe should go up first. Thus Judah the tribe of Christ bore in their own bodies the consequence of Benjamin in the first instance.

The first day of battle was not lightly undertaken and Israel did not go up without asking God. Yet they lost thousands of men in the battle. The next day Israel took courage arrayed themselves for battle, sought the face of the Lord with tears and asked “should we go up again to fight Benjamin our brother?. They did after much prayer. Once again they lost thousands of men. The next day Israel prayed and fasted all day long and with tears as for a brother they enquired of the Lord by the Arc of the Covenant. They were very serious about their obedience and yet they were not angry with Benjamin but sought the Lord with tears. In the end God gave Benjamin into their hands. The consequence to all of this was that Benjamin became the first to take of necessity foreign women into their tribe. Benjamin was the first tribe to be cut off from Israel.

Where does mercy and where does truth lie in all of this. If the Lord asks you to go up and stand against your brother it will not be without cost to you yourself. In the end the Lord will have a righteous outcome and give opportunity for Benjamin to repent and to comprehend the cost of his disobedience. The mark of a true prophet is personal cost to himself and only another when all else fails. The willingness of some to rebuke others without knowing this is a measure of their not being a prophet at all. Everything else is simply vanity. Genuine obedience is not a cause for joy as some imagine it to be. It is often a cause of suffering, sadness and in the end a desire to forgive.

Dealing with disobedient and rebellious brethren is never a matter of simply rebuking them. The cost associated with obedience to God will always in the end be measured in suffering. Both those who are judged and those who are instruments in God’ hands. This repeats itself time and again in the scriptures through every generation. All those men who stand against others simply on doctrinal grounds, which are not an issue of life, always do so with a mind to reject the brethren by saying “thou art not my brother”. This is a far easier way to go than to accept that the brother who is in error is indeed your brother.

The passage from Judges which covers the sin of the two men of the tribe of Benjamin, in firstly seeking to have homosexual relations with a man and then in raping and abusing his concubine so that in the end she died, lay at the heart of the fierce battles which cost tens of thousands their lives before Benjamin was judged. The women who was raped to death was cut into twelve pieces and sent to each part of Israel by her master and this was to provoke accountability in Israel. The effect was to astonish and disturb each tribe and thereby make certain that this blasphemous and wolf like savagery did not go unavenged. No one in this account was a fake. All were brethren. In the end a sin against a women cost Benjamin so much that their very existence was threatened and they were cut off from their brethren Israel in the most fundamental business of perpetuating their tribe, so that Israel swore that Benjamin would no longer take wives from among their brethren Israel. There own wives perished as well. Yet even after all of this Israel forgave Benjamin and called him “brother”.

It seems to me that if we settle the central question of what lies at the heart of knowing whether another man is your brother or not, will settle the question of how you will deal with him. As for the real wolf well they are rather sad and cowardly and when they are finally exposed they yield without resistance because in being exposed they cannot bear it. It is too much for them and they flee. In the end their own name is more important than their sins and the consequence of them. This is where the hireling takes on a fuller meaning. Without the true shepherd no one could be anything at all. Even if we are something then it ought to be Christ in us and not ourselves. We ought to labour for the love of Christ and not for wages or recognition.