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 Re: Goshen Nurses Lose Jobs After Refusing Flu Vaccination

Quote:
Wow! and I thought I was the only one that saw this, guess i was waiting for someone else to say this, I just did not want to become a casualty of the heated debate. Thanks for bringing this up Brother Neil, the time has begun and is now is in full mode, we all better know how to recognize the wolves in sheep's clothing. For the record I am not calling anyone a wolf, it was just a general statement.

edit: Had to do a correction on the wolves and sheep's thing, was only on my first cup of coffee. :) Mr Bill Pro




This is a cowardly statement brother. Do you truthfully believe that your comment could not have been taken any other way than as an insinuation of Chris. Perhaps you should read Chris’ own explanation as to why he posted into this article. It was on this precise basis. It was insinuation at the heart of some of the comments. In the end when that which insinuates is brought to account how will it explain itself? It is truly astonishing how we miss reality and press for our own ignorance and lack of insight.

 2013/1/13 11:13
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
mrbillpro...For the record I am not calling anyone a wolf, it was just a general statement.



Quote:
amrkelly...Do you truthfully believe that your comment could not have been taken any other way than as an insinuation of Chris.



Yes I did, but only by folks that can't read, or likes to take your post/posts out of context. What does "for the record" mean in your world? and also for the record "I served 16 months in Vietnam in DaNang, you bet I am a coward.
Now "for the record" this thread is heading south, so God Bless you all, hope everyone gets it all worked out, adios amigos!


_________________
Bill

 2013/1/13 11:27Profile









 dear brother Bill and Chris

Brethern, as i sit here....and REALLY pray and think about what i wrote to Chris.......i dont mean ANYTHING as a "slam", or a "putdown"....NOTHING like that....its just....schma! hear me, i MUST be authentic and real in what i feel in my heart and my spirit and what the Holy Spirit says to me....

and Chris, i am not trying to put you "down"...i wrote a hundredth of what the Holy Spirit tells me, when i read your writings.....i'm just saying sir, God is watching.

on this internet, we all can be "anonymous" to a certain degree, in front of man, but with God?.....no, we are not anonymous.

i dont even like these threads, i want be to praying about how Jesus Christ is going to get me the lumber and building supplies to make a simple humble house of prayer in the front pasture, as He has TOLD me to do.

i need to be burning off ANYTHING in my soul, in my daily walk that is EVEN QUESTIONABLE to Jesus, questionable to God, i am the worst of the worst....you have no idea!!!


But, one thing i got going for me, actually Two....i fear God, and i know His Son, Jesus Christ.

thats it. as far as chewing over all the junk of the spirit of babylon...it makes me sick...all of these entities, whether they "big pharma".....or "big oil", or "big banking", or "big weapons"....all they are, in the final analysis, are 'temples to the golden calf'....and its twin, 'the whore of babylon', which contains the 'spirit of babylon', all of which are most decidely ANTI-christ.

none of this, has anything to do with Chris, nor am i "anti-business", anti-govt, rebellious, etc...i just had to say what my heart led me to say.

 2013/1/13 11:58









 Brother Kelly

i did not write what i did to stir up trouble.

 2013/1/13 12:01









 Bill

dear brother Bill, i didnt know you did 16 months in DaNang....God bless you and may He remove all memories of this time OUT of your soul.

Brother Bill, Brother AMRKelly, and Brother Chris, i REALLY didnt mean to start a fight...the fault lies with me, i shouldnt even post on matters like this, maybe i "fast" from such......thats the answer, God love you men, peace unto you all, neil

 2013/1/13 12:07
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re: Bill

It's ok Neil, I said goodbye, but I just wanted to come back to say, Neil, none is perfect! and also, I Love what Roy quoted here. "The first step to being deceived is to believe you are so close in your walking to God that you cannot be deceived." - Roy Daniel

God Bless Brother Neil, trust me I know were your coming from, it's deeper than most can see, but brother Bill can see, you remind me of me, a broken vessel, being repaired by God everyday.


_________________
Bill

 2013/1/13 12:15Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi Neil,

You wrote quite a bit, so I will do my best to answer the things that you said.

Quote:
well, this year, my flu shot didnt work for me.

shrug...oh well. i spent five days in the hospital.



I did not say that the flu shot works for everyone. Please go back and read what I repeated several times. Here are some of the things that I said in this thread:

Quote:

“The evidence is clear and overwhelming that flu shots can prevent MOST COMMON STRAINS of influenza during each subsequent flu season.”

“While THERE CAN BE ISSUES with medicine, they are very rare and the alternative (not getting a flu shot) can have INCREASED THE ODDS of medical issues that far outweigh the rare possibility of a side effect.”

“The flu shot targets VARIOUS STRAINS of influenza that are expected to be troublesome. They AREN’T ABSOLUTELY EFFECTIVE because influenza mutates.”

“However, a very small number of people have "reactions" to vaccines and OTHERS WILL CONTRACT A MUTATED OR ALTERNATE STRAIN OF THE FLU.”

“The 62% that was cited in the article is in regard to a study of the current strain of flu that is affecting many people in North America and the effectiveness of the most widely available vaccine distributed in America. However, the flu vaccine will be modified to target this current strain and distributed when available, just as was true a few years ago with an outbreak of the H1N1 flu strain.”

“The article also points out the conclusion from this analysis regarding which strains this particular flu vaccine is MOST EFFECTIVE against at an early point in the flu season.”

“Unfortunately, the flu is comprised of multiple mutated strains that behave in the same similar way. So, multiple vaccinations are needed to combat the spread of the flu.”

“In this case, I acknowledged that there are concerns about vaccines and even cases of bad reactions and side effects.”



I thought that I made an adequate attempt at explaining how a flu shot works – pointing out that it is NOT a “cure all” -- and how it targets certain strains of influenza. I also made it clear that there ARE documented and calculated risks side effects, but that the side effects are very rare and considered diminished to the risk of contracting the strain of flu for which the shot is designed to combat.

Quote:

you know Chris, and i write this in all frankness, you're a cypher to me, meaning i dont "get you". i'm a writer my brother. i KNOW the energy and work it takes to write long, well thought posts, and whats all so perplexing to me, are the subjects, that you choose, to write very long, well constructed posts.



Neil, I should be clear that I do not spend a long amount of time writing posts as some have suggested. Perhaps it is my typing ability and comfort with typing (due to much experience writing in college, grad school, publications and work), but I am a fast typist. As for the “subjects:” I suppose that I have wrote in many, many topics on SermonIndex over the years that are largely ignored. I also suppose that the “memorable” subjects would be those that are debated on SermonIndex – from Bible translations to eschatology to current events in Washington – are the ones that “stand out.” However, I have written lengthy posts on other issues. Yet, since there is little disagreement, they may not stand out nearly as much.

Also, I would like to say that most of the things are not just “thought out.” Some of the things have been from personal experiences that I have had. And, most importantly (but, sadly, not always), I have endeavored to pray over the things that I post. I cannot count the times that I wrote a long or “well-thought” post and then prayerfully decided NOT to post it. For instance, I was going to participate in the gun debate thread, but decided against it. Sometimes, I sit on the things that I post. Instead of posting something that I wrote, I have a folder on my computer where I will often store those things. Most of the time, those things are never posted.

I will also say that there are times that I greatly regretted posting on a matter that becomes hotly debated by various believers on SermonIndex. It was in those times that I probably should have waited more intently for the direction that God did (or did not) want me to go with what I wrote.

Quote:
i praise God that the Holy Spirit reveals things to me, God the Holy Ghost has NEVER let me down, and i thank Him, profusely when He not only REVEALS, but warns me.



I agree. However, in these earthly shells, even those most intent on hearing the Lord are still confined behind a “glass darkly.” There have been times when the thoughts that I was certain of just that weren’t quite so accurate. And, of course, I think that many of us have “blamed God” for our thoughts, prejudices, notions, revelations and even “warnings” only to find that they were construed in our earthly hearts and ears. If you look back at most of the divisive issues on SermonIndex, you will find men striving for what they think that God revealed to them. Yet, their words reflect conflicting ideas and even resentment and hostility (at times) after being publicly ignored or rejected.

Thankfully, there are times in which I feel that I have received a “sure word” from the Lord. These have been supernatural experiences in which something that I received from the Lord. These have been moments in which God spoke to me (or warned me) in a way that was not a thought or mere impression. Most of the times, these things are “verified” as they come to pass exactly (and with specificity) as I had received from the Lord.

However, most of my thoughts are my own (with the mind of Christ that I strive for). In this case, I did not receive “supernatural revelation” from the Lord. This undoubtedly came from “I, Chris” -- even though I wrote from a perspective utilizing personal knowledge and experiences. It should never be confused with a “thus saith the Lord.”

Quote:
and thats all i will write on this matter.....this time the flu shot didnt work....shrug, but you sure did spend a lot of energy defending Big Pharma, and if thats your calling, go in the strength you have. But remember, God is watching.



Brother, I do know that God is watching. We will all give an account for this. However, please explain to me what you mean with this accusation that I spent “a lot of energy defending Big Pharma.” Where? Can you quote all of the times in which I defended ANY company or the medicinal industry itself?

Rather, I thought that the intent of my original post (and the underlying purpose of my subsequent posts) was clear: I was urging CAUTION when others were speaking about vaccines. If we are going to make systematic claims about vaccines, then we should be very careful with what we say and only do so after much research (and, if possible, citing it). After all, if we make such a claim, the burden of proof lay with us and not the person questioning it. While I do not believe that I was “defending Big Pharma,” I could also ask about those who spent much energy “attacking Big Pharma” by speaking about “revolving doors” and insinuating that the industry itself and flu vaccines are motivated by underhanded motives. Perhaps I read this the wrong way, but this is how it seemed to me…which motivated my call for “caution.”


Quote:
Brethern, as i sit here....and REALLY pray and think about what i wrote to Chris.......i dont mean ANYTHING as a "slam", or a "putdown"....NOTHING like that....its just....schma! hear me, i MUST be authentic and real in what i feel in my heart and my spirit and what the Holy Spirit says to me....

and Chris, i am not trying to put you "down"...i wrote a hundredth of what the Holy Spirit tells me, when i read your writings.....i'm just saying sir, God is watching.

on this internet, we all can be "anonymous" to a certain degree, in front of man, but with God?.....no, we are not anonymous.



Again, I totally agree that God is watching. He watches us when we write and when we are alone. Yes, we will all give an account to God for what we say in a public forum, in private and even with our hearts which no one but God sees or hears. I was listening to a message by David Wilkerson this week, Holy Ground, that spoke to this very thing!

In a message to youth and young Christian workers, Brother Wilkerson pointed out the great potential for each one of us. There is potential to be a vessel used by God…or a vessel that can actually work against what God desires. We can lead people to Him…or away from Him by our actions, the things that we say and the manner by which we approach others. Wilkerson was lamenting the potentially devastating effect that a fleshly attitude or decision can have on those who might see him or hold him in esteem.

I think that most of us are keenly aware that God is watching. Most of us are also aware that people of Church is watching and reading (and some are ready to pounce!). However, I am also aware that the people in this world are watching too. I have spoken to many unbelievers who are turned off to Christ because of those who claim to be followers of Christ.

I spoke to a man once who startled me with a joke about Christians. He said, “What’s the difference between Christians and buzzards? Buzzards wait until you are dead before they peck and rip you apart. Christians will do it while you’re still alive.” It was a sad referendum of one man’s experience with believers. Even more sadly, I have felt that way at times with the words of others.

I know what it is like to have believers almost figuratively dance over me pointing out failures or perceived failures or doctrinal disagreements in an effort to “expose” how “worldly” they “discerned” that I am. I have also read posts by well-meaning people that insinuate that those with whom we disagree are "wolves" in sheep's clothing. It hurts. It hurts deeply when brethren use loose language like this. Such hurt is only diminished when I spend time in my prayer closet at the feet of the One who was rejected and nailed to the Cross.

Quote:
i dont even like these threads, i want be to praying about how Jesus Christ is going to get me the lumber and building supplies to make a simple humble house of prayer in the front pasture, as He has TOLD me to do.

i need to be burning off ANYTHING in my soul, in my daily walk that is EVEN QUESTIONABLE to Jesus, questionable to God, i am the worst of the worst....you have no idea!!!

But, one thing i got going for me, actually Two....i fear God, and i know His Son, Jesus Christ.



Although my wife and I aren't in a position to build a house, I can only say “ditto” brother.

Quote:
thats it. as far as chewing over all the junk of the spirit of babylon...it makes me sick...all of these entities, whether they "big pharma".....or "big oil", or "big banking", or "big weapons"....all they are, in the final analysis, are 'temples to the golden calf'....and its twin, 'the whore of babylon', which contains the 'spirit of babylon', all of which are most decidely ANTI-christ.

none of this, has anything to do with Chris, nor am i "anti-business", anti-govt, rebellious, etc...i just had to say what my heart led me to say.



This world is not my home. Over the years on SermonIndex, I have been criticized for earning an education. However, if the things that I have learned via formal education have taught me anything, it is that this world is NOT MY HOME! Like you, I long for the day in which I can see the face of God! I long to literally embrace and be embraced by God! I grow homesick to be with our Lord with each passing day.

Yet, God has placed us in this world for such a time as this. I am not in debt to any of the entities that mankind so easily places the word “big” in front of. This world itself is the only earthly “big” that I am concerned with. Not only do I wish to avoid the “big” world from invading my heart (as some have suggested already has), but I see this big world as in need of an even bigger God. This world…this country…this city in which I live is “going to Hell in a handbasket.” God has reached us and He desires for us to reach others who are often unaware of how lost this world is.

God has left us here upon the Earth for a reason. “To live is Christ…” As believers, we must walk among the people of this world. We interact with them. We drive on their roads. Like the Early Church in pagan Rome, we live in an earthly dominion controlled by them. They watch and hear us. We must be keenly aware of the great potential to attract them to Christ or to turn them away by what we say or do.

In the context of this thread, it was never my intention to point out any person or “defend” the medical or pharmaceutical industry. It certainly wasn’t my intention to be divisive. Rather, I simply hoped to urge caution due to the fact that this world is watching us. There were things said that I felt concern had meandered into the realm of insinuation and simply felt a need to urge caution before taking this particular thread down the same path that other threads on the same topic have meandered.

I apologize if this simple intent was not as clear as it should have been. I thought that I had made it clear and I am not sure how I could correct it. We are all growing in the Lord. With His help, none of us are the same people that we were just a few short years ago. Since we know the Lord, our hunger for God should always be concentrated on our Lord. However, the things that we learn, faith, growth and maturity have caused us to grow in Him. Regardless of it all, it is most important to remain true to our First Love.


_________________
Christopher

 2013/1/13 14:25Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

To ccchhhrrriiisss and amrkelly

If you guys want to get a flu vaccine that is fine with me no one here is trying to take your vaccines away from you but on the other hand you guys are clearly for mandating that others such as these nurses should not have the right without loosing their job to refuse to inject themselves with vaccines that contain carcinogenics such as mercury, formaldehyde and other things that some of us do not desire to put into our blood stream.

If you guys want to give your children the (MMR),(chickenpox) and other vaccines that have been produced from human diploid cell cultures that are originated from aborted fetus (called WI-38) and (MRC-5) and belive such a pharmakeia concoction is from God, than go ahead but do not try to infringe or rather mandate your opinion on to others.


If you guys want to chalenge insinuationes that are given as facts than so do,
but do not get offended by facts that are given that insinuate, for by the such is how we test the well and its water

 2013/1/13 15:32Profile









 dear Brother Chris

like i said before, i didnt mean to start a fight, or contention.....and when i was saying "flu shot didnt work, shrug"....thats exactly what i meant....shrug....oh well....

literally. didnt get me worked up,....the 5 days in the hospital, felt much love from the nurses, my doctor....felt blessed i even have insurance ....the whole nine yards, but there's just ONE thing i want to clear up with you........when i wrote, "build a house of prayer".....this "house" i refer to?......is literally the MOST humble of building.......we are talking three quarter inch sheets of ply wood for the walls...probably salvaged windows, wont even be electricity in, just an outlet for me to run an 16 amp orange cord to.....and the foundation?....will be 4 by 4's sitting atop foundation block, six of those, four at the corners and 2 in the middle....basically it will be a clean shack, on my front pasture, God willing...i'm think MAYBE 2,000 dollars in lumber...maybe that....its just a 20 by 20 room, on a lonely ridge in the rural Northwoods, may it be filled with saints who are serious about prayer........so i say, i pray that you and your dear one be able to buy a sturdy house........neil

 2013/1/13 15:34
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi proudpapa,

I would ask that you do likewise. If you are going to make claims, please be prepared to understand that I was simply urging caution about the extent of the claims that you make. This topic inevitably meanders into debates over the safety of vaccines themselves. However, I did not -- and never have -- tried to "mandate my opinion" on to others. I simply urged caution and a need to research this topic further before making broad or specific public insinuations.

I was simply urging caution before we give place to anything less than pure in the "well" of our dialogue. No offense was meant and there are certainly some points that you have made for which I would agree necessitate further study (e.g. claims that the original chicken pox vaccine made from the cells of an aborted fetus).

Here is an interesting article for consideration:
http://www.drwile.com/lnkpages/render.asp?vac_abortion


_________________
Christopher

 2013/1/13 15:48Profile





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