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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37703
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Here is John Piper's "You will Suffer". In this video, John talks about losing everything when you follow God. At times, even your family.

I hate this aspect of following God. I weep almost everyday cause of the suffering but that's what the bible says. I don't make the rules.

I also worry about the other side of the spectrum. The group of people that make raising a family an idol over loving God. My sister has a family with kids now. Ever since she has a family of her own, that family became an idol. All her actions are consumed with taking care of the family. She is so consumed by it that she denies it is the end times. She thinks the economy will bounce right back and everything will be normal again. She is also a pastor and has been a pastor for almost a decade.

The Gospel never calls us to neglect our wives or leave them for a more holy call. We must obey Ephesians 5 towards marriage. Only if a wife consents should a husband go alone and serve the Lord on the mission field for a season.

There is a great deception in trying to serve the Lord and treat your wife badly feeling it is ok because of your devotion to the Lord.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/12/30 9:35Profile

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


In light of Ephesians 5:25 and in the relation of the husband's love for his wife, this is a covenant which is paralleled with Christ's sacrificial love for His church. Abandonment is not an option, no matter how great the supposed "calling" is on a man's ministry. The Lord cannot contradict His Word and call a person to a ministry which will bring about a breach in the marriage covenant. This would be like Him dividing His own house against itself.

According to scripture if a man cannot keep His own family in a holy balance, he has no business doing God's work. This includes covenantal relations with his wife as well as the behavior of his own children while under his roof. This is how I read scripture and I therefore agree with Greg and the others who have voiced apprehension concerning this person's ministry.

Brother Paul

Paul Frederick West

 2012/12/30 11:29Profile

Joined: 2009/12/6
Posts: 101

 Re: Homeless Preacher that Risks his Life Every Day for Jesus

Keep the zeal + Keep the marriage = A just balance.

I appreciate the gentleman zeal which is a great encouragement, yet I also appreciate Brother Greg's discernment which brings me a balance.



 2012/12/30 12:37Profile


We do not know if the preacherman treated his wife badly. By the same logic, I cannot conclude that the wife became a devil worshipper, denounced christ and went off with a billionaire and left her poor husband. On what basis, are we making that conclusion? How do you guys know?

Did David Livingstone neglect his wife also? Should he have just quit being a missionary and God's call and go back home.

When does serving your wife become paramount to obeying Christ?

So when the mark of the beast comes, should we just receive the mark so we can feed our starving family?

Do we want the best life for our family in heaven or on earth?

I understand that Ephesians 5 verse. Yes, we have to love our wives and most of the time, we will do that. But God sometimes cause not just the wife but the whole family to suffer. I hate that part about this christian life and I pray to God that no family will go through that.

Please listen to the story of David Livingstone.

 2012/12/30 15:24

 Re: Homeless Preacher that Risks his Life Every Day for Jesus

We do not know if preacherman treated his wife badly. On what basis, are we making that conclusion? How do you guys know?

Did David Livingstone neglect his wife also? Should he have just quit being a missionary and God's call and go back home.

When does serving your wife become paramount to obeying Christ?

There is no deception on my part. 

So when the mark of the beast comes, she we just receive the mark so we can feed our starving family?

Do we want the best life for our family in heaven or on earth? codek

I hope you are not offended if I seek to answer your questions but this business of being a husband and father is so important that to neglect it is will lead to serious loss. I don’t suppose you are deceived yourself but the brother in the centre of this post may be. Whether this is in fact true we may never know until we all see the Lord. One thing is for certain those who have wives and children have an absolute duty and responsibility before God to love them. This love is not the love of a man for a women but the love of Christ. It is to be the same love of Christ with which Christ Himself loved us. This is how a man must love his wife and children. We all know that to love a woman is something which all natural men have in their power. There is nothing exceptional in simply loving your wife. Her beauty in the eyes of her husband is itself a constraint and a reasonable influence. This influence and reasonable restraint was first experienced and recognised by our forefather Adam. It is nothing compared to the love of Christ and the reality of what happened in Eden sets the basis for this need for a man to love his wife as Christ loved us and not simply for a man to “love his wife”.

The reason given by Paul for this is because “the women is a weaker vessel” and herein lies the understanding. This is also why the scriptures never tells children not to cause their parents to stumble or wives to cause their husbands to stumble. The power to cause stumbling is with the husband not the wife or the children. No doubt a woman can cause her husband to become angry or else a child can give rise to fear and therefore anger. This is not what stumbling means. When this brother persisted in his ministry to the cost of his wife and children he failed to take account of her true condition and the need she has for him to be a man and do his duty both towards her and her children. Stumbling in this sense is before God and amounts to a reasonable cry on the part of the woman to God Himself and an accusation of injustice. Such things cannot be overlooked and this brother will have to pay for his decisions in his own body, just as his wife and children have paid and may still be paying in theirs.

Imagine if the Lord were to take such an attitude with us. How would we obey him then? Or how would we take confidence in Him. Our confidence is not only that He died for us and rose from the dead for us, but that He now lives for us at the right hand of the Father evermore making intercession for us. Why is this? Because we are weak and He is strong. By His strength He is able to save us and through His weakness (the cross) He laid himself down for us. So ought a man to do for his wife and children. If he will not then he is denying the reality of his wife and children and making of them a sacrifice to his own calling. Such a thing is not necessary. On the other hand if a man does have a calling in his life and knows that he will one day depart his house, (just as Christ departed heaven) and go into the world, (just as Christ came into the world) then let him do it as Christ did it. “Father of those that thou hast given Me, I have lost none”. Let those who serve Christ comprehend this. The man is the head of the woman and it is his responsibility before God to keep his family. Were this not possible God would not ask it of us. The woman is saved through childbearing and motherhood. This is a being saved for the kingdom of heaven not a receiving of eternal life. For in Christ there is neither male or female. So eternal life is not a matter of Adam is a matter of Christ. Marriage on the other hand is a matter for men and women, male and female. How easy it is for men to despise the weakness of their wives and to fail to comprehend their own weakness before God.

I could share with you some very sobering accounts on this subject but I will spare you. It is a mistake to believe that a man can save his family for the kingdom by departing from them now. In eternity there will be no marriage. Salvation for the woman is measured in obedience to her husband and in faithfulness to her natural estate in the keeping of the home and in child bearing. There is nothing shameful in this it is a wonder and a natural estate. Likewise there is nothing spiritual in a man making children and then thereafter serving strangers to the neglecting of his wife and children. No doubt a sound wife who is in Christ also will be likeminded with her husband and in season will obediently free him to serve God in the mission field if it is his calling to do so. Yet let him first learn how to be a husband if he is indeed a husband and therein teach his wife and children so that when his day comes he will go in peace and they will also have peace.

 2012/12/30 16:48



I will not read your posts anymore because you refuse to read my points.

You ignore my points, including the one about David Livingstone.

You really need to watch the "you will suffer" video by John Piper that was put up by Sermonindex and maybe Greg himself.

It talks about how following Christ will include pain and suffering, many times hardship will occur in the family, including the loss of family and maybe even a broken family.

You are arguing on a minor point and your arguments now include statments about "marriages not existing in heaven". You are forgetting the central point which is our dedication to Christ MIGHT call us to forsake all.

Until you see the central theme here, you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if we're married or not in heaven, and I'm not sure why you are arguing that.

 2012/12/30 17:09

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