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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?

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 Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?

I have been on different prayer calls that are acknowledging the Jews in Israel as estranged brothers and sisters. My understanding of the New Testament is a spiritual brother or sister in Christ is one who has a saving relationship with him.

But I am willing to listen. Are the unsaved Jews of Israel to be considered our brothers and sisters in tbe body if Christ? Note this question is asked in the context of unsaved Jews, not Messianic Jews. So again are the unsaved Jews in Israel and abroad, are they our estranged brethren in Christ?

Asked by Bearmaster.

 2012/11/21 19:20

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2149

 Re: Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?

The title of this thread asks the question,

"Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?"

I answer,


"So again are the unsaved Jews in Israel and abroad, are they our estranged brethren in Christ?"

So again I answer,


Answered by Savannah

"No wisdom, no understanding, no counsel can avail against the LORD." Proverbs 21:30

 2012/11/21 20:36Profile

 Re: Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?

Are the unsaved Jews of Israel to be considered our brothers and sisters in tbe body if Christ?

As fellow human beings is concerned we are certainly brothers and sisters, but as in Christ, no.

The unbelieving Jew is much as lost as the unbelieving Gentile.

The problem lies in our affections towards the ancient name called Israel, there is a deep respect for the nation of Israel and yet they hate our Lord Jesus Christ. So how can they be in Christ if they do not believe? How can they be in Him when they do not have His Spirit?

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

1 Thessalonians 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

1 Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

 2012/11/21 21:43

Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1033


Collectively yes, individually no.

The key word here is enstranged. It excludes some aspects in what it includes. They are brothers and sisters when they cease to be enstranged.


 2012/11/21 21:48Profile


They become our brothers and sisters when they accept Christ as their Messiah. Just like everyone else. Until then they're lost.

However, do not mistake this to be the negation of God's prophetic purpose for Israel as a nation and His promises He made specifically for/to them.

"For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"

To the Jew first, then to the Gentile.

 2012/11/21 23:29

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37959
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


The problem lies in our affections towards the ancient name called Israel, there is a deep respect for the nation of Israel and yet they hate our Lord Jesus Christ. So how can they be in Christ if they do not believe? How can they be in Him when they do not have His Spirit?

Dear Brothers And Sisters,

I believe we need to be careful as those who are "gentiles" that we did not receive the commandments and law, Israel did. We did not receive the law "through angels" Israel did. We did not have God speak to prophets and have a temple in our countries, only Israel did. They were given special revelation of God so that others could see it.

But the disobedience of Israel in rejecting Jesus Christ is that the light of this Gospel would come to the rest of the world. God planned it this way. And for it to come to the gentiles means one day it will provoke Israel to come back to God. And such will be a glorious day, the scriptures say it will be "life from the dead".

We are 2000 years of God's redemption plan and he worked this redemption 4000 years earlier through Adam, Noah and all the patriachs of Israel. We must be very careful to have a humble attitude the Scripture warns us, because we are just engrafted into the promises that were intially given to Israel and are "still theirs".

So no unbelieving Jewish people are not brothers and sisters, but the "people of Israel" are special because they will come back to God after the "fulness of the gentiles are done" therefore we must read Romans chapters 9 to 11 very carefully and slowly. We must not be haughty thinking we are better because we see physical Israel that has forsoken God to the point of utter self-dependence.

Yet they will come back to God again through tragedy and the glorious Gospel will be accepted by many Jewish people. God's love is for everyone but the scripture says to the Jew First then the gentile (Romans 1-3). May we pray for the Jewish people to come back to God which is the end-times plan of Jesus Christ.

If we are in Jesus Christ we will be concerned about this plan and share God's heart for all peoples (nations) especially the people of Israel because from them the messiah came and will come again to them.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/11/22 0:02Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2149

 Re: Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?

"Therefore, having put aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisies and envies and all slanders, as newborn babies long for the spiritual, pure milk, so that you shall grow by it, if indeed you tasted [fig., experienced] that the Lord is gracious. To whom having approached as to a living stone, on the one hand having been rejected by people, on the other hand chosen [and] precious before God,
and you yourselves, as living stones, are being built up into a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
For this reason, it is contained in the Scripture, "Look! I lay in Zion a stone, a cornerstone, chosen, precious, and the one believing on Him shall by no means be put to shame [or, be disappointed]." [Isa 28:16] Therefore, the honor is to you, the ones believing. But to the ones disobeying [or, refusing to believe], "The stone which the builders rejected, this [One] became the head of the corner [or, the chief cornerstone]" [Psalm 118:22] and "A stone of stumbling and a rock of offence," who stumble at the word, refusing to believe, to which also they were appointed. [Isaiah 8:14]
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, in order that you shall proclaim the excellencies of the One having called you out of darkness into His marvelous light, [Exod 9:16; Isaiah 43:20] who at one time were not a people, but now are the people of God; the ones not having found mercy, but now having found mercy. 1 Peter 2:1-10

Note above all the titles which formerly belonged to the circumcised people known as the Jews or Israelites are given to those in Christ or Christians. And this not by accident as we read our LORD'S words,

Hear another parable: There was a certain man, a house master, who planted a vineyard and placed a hedge around it; and he dug a winepress in it, and built a tower. And he rented it to vinedressers and left the country. [Isaiah 5:1,2] And when the season of the fruits came, he sent his slaves to the vinedressers to receive his fruits. And the vinedressers, taking his slaves, they beat this one, and they killed one, and they stoned another. Again he sent other slaves, more than the first. And they did the same to them. And at last he sent his son to them, saying, They will respect my son. But seeing the son, the vinedressers said among themselves, This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and possess his inheritance. And taking him, they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore, when the lord of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers? They said to Him, Evil men! He will miserably destroy them, and he will rent out the vineyard to other vinedressers who will give to him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said to them, Did you never read in the Scriptures, "A Stone which the builders rejected, this One became the Head of the Corner? This was from the Lord, and it is a wonder in our eyes?" [Psalm 118:22,23]
Because of this I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you, and it will be given to a nation producing the fruits of it. Matthew 21:33-43

He says, "Because of this I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and it will be given to a nation producing the fruits of it.", which means that 'Holy Nation' spoken of by Peter in the above verses, which has been born of God in Christ consisting of all those believing ones ("that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eternal." (John 3:15,16).

There are not two peoples of God but one,this is why we read also,

"Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -" At that time you were apart from Christ, foreigners from the Commonwealth of Israel, with no share by birth in the Covenants which are based on the Promises, and you had no hope and no God, in all the world. Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ." For He is our peace, He making us both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition, by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it."
And coming, He proclaimed "peace to you, the ones afar off, and to the ones near." For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Then, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner-stone, in whom all the building fitly framed together doth increase to an holy temple in the Lord, in whom also ye are builded together, for a habitation of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:11-22

And again we read,

"For Moses truly said to the fathers, A Prophet will the Lord your God raise up to you, of your brethren, like me; him shall ye hear in all things, whatever he shall say to you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul who will not hear that Prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. And all the prophets also from Samuel, and those that follow, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed." Acts 3;22-25

And finally,

"For the promise that he should be the heir of the world was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of no effect. Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all; (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations) before him whom he believed, even God, who reviveth the dead, and calleth those things which are not, as though they were. Who against hope believed with hope, that he should become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be." Romans 4:13-18

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor. 15:50

Do you not yet understand?

"From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." 2 Cor. 5:16,17

STOP focusing on flesh and blood! God doesn't!

"Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him." Romans 8:8,9

"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together." Romans 8:16,17

Amen and Amen.

 2012/11/22 6:28Profile

Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile!

Why not consider and remember that Jesus was a JEW and in Him is the Gentile made a complete Jew and the Jew is made a completed Jew. Does not the "grafting in" process work in both directions to produce ONE NEW MAN__ Both in Christ??

__And as a nation will not that ONE NEW MAN reside IN Christ __Who was a JEW? What was the Promise to Abraham AND his seed? Who are his seed if not ALL who come to Christ?

 2012/11/22 8:27Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2779
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Are the people of Israel estranged brothers and sisters?

This thread is guaranteed to bring strife and division, be very careful. Remember, the root bears you...

But if some of the branches of the tree have been broken off, while you, like shoots of wild-olive, have been grafted in, and don't share like a natural branch the rich nourishment of the root, don't let yourself feel superior to those former branches. (If you feel inclined that way, remind yourself that you do not support the root, the root supports you.) You may make the natural retort, "But the branches were broken off to make room for my grafting!" It wasn't quite like that. They lost their position because they failed to believe; you only maintain yours because you do believe. The situation does not call for conceit but for a certain wholesome fear. If God removed the natural branches for a good reason, take care that you don't give him the same reason for removing you.

You must try to appreciate both the kindness and the strict justice of God. Those who fell experienced his justice, while you are experiencing his kindness, and will continue to do so as long as you do not abuse that kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off from the tree. And as for the fallen branches, unless they are obstinate in their unbelief, they will be grafted in again. Such a restoration is by no means beyond the power of God. And, in any case, if you who were, so to speak, cuttings from a wild-olive, were grafted in, is it not a far simpler matter for the natural branches to be grafted back onto the parent stem?

[Romans 11:17-24 Phillips]

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2012/11/22 10:35Profile

Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


Re: This thread is guaranteed to bring strife and division, be very careful. Remember, the root bears you...

I don't agree. I believe it is healthy to seek understanding in this matter.

Why assume that is what's going on here when privilege and promise can be seen to be the opposite result??

 2012/11/22 10:41Profile

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