Poster | Thread | ginnyrose Member

Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: | | Trekker, do you not see that GOD did give the commandment and it is "Thou shalt not kill."
Yes, Scripture does record suicides but it records a lot of other sins engaged in by people called out by God to be his people but that in no way justifies it.
Consider David's fall into lust and rape. Would anyone here justify it because a man after God's own heart did it? (What did David do when he was confronted? He acknowledged it and repented - that is what earned David's approval from God - he agreed with God and did not defend/justify himself.)
Scripture records the deeds of people, both good and bad demonstrating how needful a person is, how all need redemption and there is none righteous, no not one. Scripture does not always record God's reaction to the sins of people. In doing so we see how longsuffering God is with people in that judgement was not always immediate but he gave them time to repent. These stories teach us a lot about the nature of God. David writes in Psalms how he loves God's testimonies - ever think what he means by that? I consider God's testimonies to include the stories as recorded in scripture as well as the prophets who preached in reaction - under the inspiration of God's directive - to people's behaviors.
QUOTE: ".Joab didn't seem to have any qualms against murdering people despite the commandment against murder."
Trekker, in an earlier post I addressed this question - you must not have read it...go back and read it. In any case I will briefly address it here.
Joab did not get off scotfree. Solomon had him killed. Read 1Kings 2 (giving special attention to verse 5) because of his murdering. Remember Joab was David's nephew, Solomon's cousin.
_________________ Sandra Miller
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| 2012/7/4 9:55 | Profile | learn Member

Joined: 2008/7/24 Posts: 613
| Re: | | I've read stories of those contemplating suicide and was rescued by God before they did it. Also, Paul Washer mentioned that you cannot say for sure that when a person commits suicide, he will not go to heaven. I've also read about a sister who people would think was very into the Lord but yet she committed sucidie.
I do not know whether a person who commits suicide will get into Heaven. I do know this though. I've contemplated suicide several times before and once nearly snap and became crazy. I will say that one time when I was thinking of doing this in the future, I started crying heavily and was feeling very pained. This was not my pain and 'my tears'. It was God's. So to answer someone's question as to whether God feels compassion for those that commit suicide or contemplate suicide, I can say yes, God does feel the pain.
Also, I don't think this thread should be shut down. I find this thread very useful and no, this thread doesn't drive me to commit or contemplate suicide. Instead it reminds and reinforce in me that I have to trust in God ever more as the going gets tougher. That when I'm face with the thought of suicide (which I know God doesn't want me to do) and my inability to withstand the pain, the only way out is to be able to trust Him more and more. To go to Him and lean on Him.
And people commit suicide for a variety of reasons. It need not necessarily be because of loneliness or meaningful relationship (unless one is saying relationship with God). Some people commit or contemplate suicide because of the difficulties of life, being unable to provide bread and butter, physical pain,emotional abuse and so on.
I think each of you have some parts right and please don't think that you are the only one or those in your camp only have all the right answers.
Edit : I think its another brother in Christ and not Paul Washer that said he cannot say for sure that when a person commits suicide, he will not go to heaven _________________ geraldine
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| 2012/7/4 13:02 | Profile | Trekker Member

Joined: 2011/7/29 Posts: 683 northern USA
| Re: | | QUOTE: "Yeah, Trekker, you just made my point. Judas. And where do you think Judas went, since Jesus said of him, "one of you is a devil"?"==JEFFMAR
???And what point was that??? You stated there was NOT ONE SINGLE case of suicide in the NT. And i reminded you of Judas. We all know where Judas went and why. What is your point?? From your statement above you seem to be saying that every one who commits suicide must be possessed by the devil. Judas didnt go to Hell because he committed suicide but because he betrayed the Lord, among other things; he was never a Believer. So shame on you. And this thread was never meant to be a discussion on where suicides go in the first place; the question is why God didn't issue any command against it in the OT. I could also make my next thread about why God allowed polygamy in the OT...will i be crucified for asking that too?? |
| 2012/7/4 13:58 | Profile | Lysa Member

Joined: 2008/10/25 Posts: 3699 East TN for now!
| Re: Why not Suicide? | | Quote:
JiG wrote: GOD gave Samson his strength to kill the enemies of Israel. It wasn't GOD's will for Samson to fall for Delilah's seductive scheme and yet he did. He was never meant to be a weakened prisoner and be shamed before Israel's enemies and his sin had made our GOD seem smaller in the Philistines' eyes and in chpt 16 "making sport" of Samson was to mock The GOD of Samson and Israel. GOD gave him the strength to gain back what was lost, to do what he was forordained to do - but because of his sin - he paid with his life as well. Samson had plenty of time to repent of his sin with Deliah, but he still paid with his life along with GOD's enemies.
You answered the Samson thing, but why didnt you answer the rest of my post? .............................. JiG wrote: The Scriptures are very clear about even self-mutalation, nonetheless "murdering anyone - including self". ________________________________________ Lisa replied: Ok, maybe you can help me and reference those very clear Scriptures because all this will be settled with the next post and this thread can end with the truth of the Scriptures; not the scriptures that elude to it, not the ones that say what you want them to say or what you believe they say, but the actual ones that declare people who take their own lives are going to hell. ..............................
And you also stated .... Quote:
JiG wrote: Whenever those that claim to know the New Testament but want to excuse some specific 'sin' or sin-period - I've noticed that they'll always pull out the Old Testament --- but yet they will be the same people to say that we're not under the Old Testament anymore. This has held true more times than I can number.
I dont know who you are talking about b/c I havent pulled out ANY scriptures... NT or OT. But sister, I do know that I *have* asked repeatedly for you (and others) to provide Scriptures that clearly represent what you believe that suicide is murder and all who commit suicide go to hell.
I understand that most people believe that suicide is murder, but where did you get that from? I dont believe that you got it from the Holy Scriptures b/c if it had came from Scripture, you could produce it in black and white.
We are five pages into this discussion and yet no one who believes that the Bible is the authoritative word of God can provide one verse that clearly supports what they believe. But yet Im the one whos going to have blood on my hands. I find that ironic! Just saying....
God bless us all as we search the Scriptures, Lisa
*submitted in love, not anger or sarcasm. _________________ Lisa
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| 2012/7/4 21:14 | Profile | ccchhhrrriiisss Member

Joined: 2003/11/23 Posts: 4779
| Re: | | Hi Trekker,
Quote:
Joab didn't seem to have any qualms against murdering people despite the commandment against murder
I think that there is a big misconception about just what "murder" is. When God issued the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20), the people of God were quickly exhorted to not allow a sorceress to live (Exodus 22:18).
Was this "murder?"
According to most definitions of "murder," the concept is demonstrated through unlawful killing with premeditation. This definition would prevent most soldiers, judges, police officers, jurors or individuals who were defending others from being guilty of "murder."
When Paul stood before Festus, he told the king, "For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die" (Acts 25:10-11).
When you look at suicide, I think that it is obvious from Scripture that a person is destroying their body -- and that body belongs to God.
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are" (I Corinthians 3:16-17).
Therefore, suicide is the "murder" of one's own self -- and the destruction of the Lord's temple. That would make the person who does it no different from Nero -- who destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. _________________ Christopher
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| 2012/7/4 22:59 | Profile |
| Re: | | There is such a thing as righteous anger, Lisa, and I do feel that what you and Trekker are doing is risking the lives of the VULNERABLE and if there were bold print here, I'd have used it instead of caps again.
I am not going to go on and on with this with you or her. You pulled Samson and that is what I meant by using the O.T.. One of you brought up David's sin and Trekker brought up Joab, that Chris answered very well above - but neither of you will stay with the Indwelled by His Spirit Christian life of the New Testament, because you CAN'T.
You both say that you don't believe in OSAS but you do.
Anyone that leaves the impression that suicide is acceptable to GOD is playing Russian Roullette with the souls of any vulnerable person out there and in the Tribulation, Most will be vulnerable and I asked you to think about 'that'.
Why don't you ask Zac Poonen about these things. His email address is accessible.
Suicide is "murder" and you decide what you do with your own life but the answer that you want from me and others to give is "Yes, murderers will go to heaven" when countless scriptures say that "no murderers, etc, will enter the Kingdom."
I truly could care less what you say your post is "submitted in" because I've already labeled what this thread is - it is Demonic and I'll respond as I would to the voice of that deceiver.
When a vulnerable young or old or whatever type person sees the title of this filthy thread on the homepage - that question can imprint on their minds BECAUSE that IS the question that Satan whispers in the ear of thousands of souls around the world each day ... "Why NOT Suicide?" ...
Can't you hear Satan's voice in that?
Many out there "think" that they're saved but are not, and we hear of many people that report that they just got saved though they "thought they were for yrs" .... Imagine one of Them killing themselves because of your words!
You tempt one soul to think that they can kill themselves and be 'guaranteed' of Heaven and their blood is on your head for murder. I already posted that and that you may not know who you've tempted to death but you'll find out when you see HIM.
Taking ANY life is "killing" and that is what that word is in the Greek as well. What on earth is the difference - if you're sick and ask me to kill you --- will I go to Heaven if I died at the same moment that I kill you?
How far will you two take this?
If a lady doesn't want the baby inside of her that she just found out has Downs Syndrome and I do an abortion on her and die as I hold that dead baby - will I go to Heaven.
Where do you two draw the line with taking lives?
Should I euthanize old people and stop their suffering?
Should I do an assisted suicide for my neighbor who's got cancer?
Sin is sin and the lack of the fear of GOD is beyond evident on this thread.
As my daughter would answer you and the answer that you should give the world - Suicide is "NOT AN OPTION" and everyone should draw that line in the sand Now, before things in life get REALLY hard.
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| 2012/7/5 0:41 | |
| Re: | | Quote:
Suicide is "NOT AN OPTION" and everyone should draw that line in the sand Now, before things in life get REALLY hard.
Many would be wise to take heed of these words. |
| 2012/7/5 1:07 | | Lordoitagain Member

Joined: 2008/5/23 Posts: 632 Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: | | [by Trekker on 2012/7/4 1:28:00
QUOTE: "If a person says that he has faith in Christ and has believed, but his WORKS prove otherwise, his "profession of faith" is meaningless!"==LORDDOITAGAIN
So i guess you have never committed a single sin ever again since you became a Believer and are perfect. WOW. I sure would like to meet you. You must be GOD if you can be that perfect. Otherwise, if you have committed even one bad "work" or even one sin then i guess your "works prove otherwise and your "profession of faith" is "meaningless".]
Mr Trekker, you can "shoot at the messenger" all you want to, but read again, the words of JESUS that I was quoting from:
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Your life is either bearing the fruit of holiness or the fruit of wickedness. Have I sinned since I started believing on Jesus? Yes. But I did like Peter. I went out and wept bitterly. I REPENTED which means that I turned away from it to never walk in it again. If I had CONTINUED in that sin, I would no longer be able to call myself a believer because a believer does not continue in sin. IF he sins, he repents and doesn't continue in it.
I've talked to many vipers like yourself in my lifetime Trekker. You're not the first and you won't be the last. If you do not TRULY repent of your sins and turn from all sin and begin to renounce sin, you will fall into the flames of hell one day. You will hear Jesus say: "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." You take sin so lightly!!! ... like it is NO BIG DEAL! You point at human errors to try to justify sin as if God will let you into heaven like that.
I was speaking to a lady with your same viper mentality who told me: "I do my fornicating but I ask the Lord to forgive me".
Jude has already warned me of such men as yourself:
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Read what lasciviousness is:
G766 ἀσέλγεια aselgeia Thayer Definition: 1) unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence Part of Speech: noun feminine A Related Word by Thayers/Strongs Number: from a compound of G1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed selges (of uncertain derivation, but apparently meaning continent) Citing in TDNT: 1:490, 83
When you make the grace of God a license to sin, you expose to the world what you really are ... a wolf in sheep's clothing. The ONLY hope for you Trekker is to let go of your SATANIC theology, and TRULY repent ... turn from all sin. When you do that you will no longer be justifying suicide nor any other sin.
Repentance is agreeing with God. He HATES sin! He will not let ANY sin into heaven, regardless of one's "claims" of believing in Him. WHAT A JOKE! "I believed in you" ... "but I killed myself ... I didn't trust You to take care of me ... I didn't trust you to solve my problems .... I didn't trust you to fix the situation that I was in, Lord ... but You've got to let me into your heaven ... I made a profession of faith when I was 8 years old ... "
Faith is trusting. FACE REALITY, TREKKER .... People who trust God do not take their lives. Heaven is for believers ... people who trust God.
_________________ Michael Strickland
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| 2012/7/5 3:31 | Profile | Lordoitagain Member

Joined: 2008/5/23 Posts: 632 Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: | | Quote:
Suicide is "NOT AN OPTION" and everyone should draw that line in the sand Now, before things in life get REALLY hard.
Many would be wise to take heed of these words.
AMEN! AMEN! _________________ Michael Strickland
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| 2012/7/5 3:38 | Profile | Lordoitagain Member

Joined: 2008/5/23 Posts: 632 Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: | | Quote:
Suicide is "NOT AN OPTION" and everyone should draw that line in the sand Now, before things in life get REALLY hard.
Many would be wise to take heed of these words.
AMEN! AMEN! _________________ Michael Strickland
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| 2012/7/5 3:38 | Profile |
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