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Joined: 2002/12/11 Posts: 39795 Canada
Online! | Re: | | Quote:
In the NT the command is thou shalt not murder (Matthew 19:18; Romans 1:29). Jesus took killing to a level not understood by the Jews under the law.
God did not like killing either but he allow it to rid the earth of rebellious people. To do so he used David. However, when the time came to build the temple God told David he could not do it because "he was a bloody man". A person could take this incident and see some wonderful types and shadows here of the NT covenant.
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I believe it to be very dangerous to suggest that suicide is forgiven (God forgave all my sins past, present and future) and can be entered into without any serious repercussions. There may be people reading this thread right now who may be contemplating suicide and because of some of the sentiments expressed on here will then believe it is alright to do so and will go do it.
SUICIDE IS WRONG 100% there is no way around that. And reading and hearing countless stories of people influenced by the devil to take their live before they came to Christ is abundant.
We must realize that God has a plan for each of us to be used of Him in this earth and the enemy of our souls wants to destroy us. The Thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus Christ has come to give us life.
May we not rationalize this or give anyone sympathy to commit such an evil act that is NEVER LED BY GOD's SPIRIT.
If someone does take their life they are in God's hand and I am not saying all of these will not go to heaven, but we must never condone such actions. But rather be a help and support to those who need it.
Many who want to commit suicide are so lonely, depressed and really not having any meaningful relationships. Also there is a sin they are not willing to bring to the light or confess to God. May all come to Christ to be clean. No matter how evil a past.
_________________ SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| 2012/7/3 13:39 | Profile | Lordoitagain Member

Joined: 2008/5/23 Posts: 632 Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: | | Mr. Trekker, I don't quite understand your reasoning. Just because Catholics believe something that doesn't make it false. Catholics are also against abortion. That doesn't make it OK to kill a baby!
You are accusing Ginnyrose of false doctrine and spitting out bucket loads of it yourself!
WORKS are the fruit or evidence of what one's faith is! Stg 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Stg 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jesus made it quite clear:
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
If a person says that he has faith in Christ and has believed, but his WORKS prove otherwise, his "profession of faith" is meaningless!
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
QUOTE: " IF YOU GIVE IN TO IT YOU WILL BE SEPARATED FROM GOD FOREVER!"==GINNYROSE
AMEN TO THE TRUTH!
The problem with the "fruit" or "work" of suicide is that it closes the door of oportunity for ever TRULY repenting and being able to "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:" Mat 3:8
Your "faith" is just a silly figment of your imagination if it isn't evidenced by fruit!
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
A goosy feeling on the inside accompanied by intelectual assent is not faith in Christ. If we BELIEVE what He teaches, we act by obedience in Him! Murdering one's self is not obedience to Him. He never commands anyone to murder himself.
The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy. He came to give life and life in abundance. Anyone with that LIFE inside is NOT going to take his life! _________________ Michael Strickland
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| 2012/7/3 13:45 | Profile | Lordoitagain Member

Joined: 2008/5/23 Posts: 632 Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: | | A person tempted with suicide would be MUCH SAFER to just pluck his eye out, or take a saw and cut his hand off, or his foot! He would be obeying a command of Jesus.
He doesn't say "If you had offends you BEFORE you have made a "profession of faith".
ANYONE who gives in to temptation is headed to the place He described: "into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. "
DO WE BELEIVE HIS WORDS OR NOT??? If we believe, we reject temptation. If we give in to temptation, then we either believe that His words do not apply to us, or that they are are simply worthless and don't apply to anybody:
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
_________________ Michael Strickland
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| 2012/7/3 14:02 | Profile | BonnieJane Member

Joined: 2007/3/26 Posts: 14 MS
| Re: Why not Suicide? | | I would agree with the general consciences that suicide is self murder. I tried to copy the above quote,(I couldn't make it copy) by Chuck Swindoll that Satan is involved in every suicide.
I am a Information and Crises Intervention Hot Line Telephone worker. We also partner with the National Suicide Hotline, that # being 1-800-TALK. I have been doing this for 30 yrs. So much for credentials.
A person contemplating suicide is in extreme pain. He feels alone. He feels trapped. He sees no light at the end of the tunnel. My job is to help him see that light. Some of the questions I ask; Have you attempted suicide before? If not, has someone close to you committed suicide? If yes we discuss those feelings. I ask if he has the means available to commit suicide. If they do we talk about the possibility of failing in the attempt and give the statistics of failed suicide attempts.I will ask about family members and how this will effect them.I will ask about how they think God would look at this.
My most resent call was from a man who said he he didn't believe in God so that meant I couldn't bring that in the mix. In our conversation he said that suicide is a selfish act. That admission really surprised me but opened other avenues. I suggested volunteering as helping others was one of the best thing we can do for our own mental health. That interested him. At the conclusion of our call he promised not to hurt himself and he said he was feeling much better.
I felt good about the call and pray that God will bring someone into his life that can lead him to the Giver of Life.
I hope this will have helped someone. _________________ Thelma Bontrager
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| 2012/7/3 18:40 | Profile | ginnyrose Member

Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: | | Trekker,
Your responses to this issue leaves me with the feeling that YOU MUST BE CONTEMPLATING suicide and you want to be assured that you will be received by the LORD Jesus upon doing so. This is the sense I get from reading your posts.
OR, you had a loved on commit suicide and you so desperately want to think he/she is with the LORD. One or the other.
Trekker, once a person is dead, graveyard dead, his destiny is sealed, no one can change that. We do well to leave it alone: this belongs to God. All our wishing in the world will never change that. Ever. Why try to argue the eternal destiny of a dead person? If a person commits suicide it will not be the act itself that will send a person to hell but his lack of faith will and it is this lack that doomed him/her.
Do you not know that those who commit suicide are those who have no faith, no trust, no hope in anyone, least of all God? If you have ever been tempted to it you will know exactly what I am talking about. It is a person who has given up and this is the antitheses of faith. Scriptures teach us that "without faith it is impossible to please him."
Yes, Trekker, the defense of those who look at suicide with an ambivalent attitude could well be the nudge that will give someone to proceed with it. That is why I consider this thread so dangerous!!!! And I am calling you to repent NOW!
ginnyrose
_________________ Sandra Miller
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| 2012/7/3 19:33 | Profile |
| Re: | | Yeah, Trekker, you just made my point. Judas. And where do you think Judas went, since Jesus said of him, "one of you is a devil"? |
| 2012/7/3 19:39 | |
| Re: | | To ginnyrose's point, I have several family members that have died. Some in my family can't face the fact that those close to them are eternally separated from God. So, they create an illusion in their own mind (I believe) that they must have somehow been a true believer (either "in their heart cause they made a "profession of faith as a child" and lived like the devil their whole life or a perceived possible deathbed conversion, though they never shared anything with anyone about Christ/God/Conversion/etc.).
This is a defense mechanism people create in their mind cause they just can't deal with people being lost eternally. Me, as a true believer, I know that it's done. What's done is done and what I'm comfortable with has no bearing upon truth/reality. It's done and the book is sealed on a life at the time of death, good or bad. I have tried to delicately bring it up without crushing them or making them bitter or mad at me, but they don't want to see the truth. They hide the truth in unrighteousness and it affects their own life as well. For this I'm grieved, but the Spirit of God will have to do a work to change their state. |
| 2012/7/3 19:48 | | Trekker Member

Joined: 2011/7/29 Posts: 683 northern USA
| Re: | | QUOTE: "You cannot ever 'guarantee' that GOD forgives "murder" - whether the person dies by their own hands or are killed while killing someone else.You cannot guarantee that GOD will let a murderer into Heaven because HE has said in the New Testament as well - no murderer will enter the Kingdom of Heaven - so you and Lisa would do wise to do and say everything within your power to talk against self-murder or murdering others, as you can."==JESUSISGOD
This too is false doctrine. God forgave King David his sin of murder, and SAID so. Albeit, David confessed and was repentant. As for suicide, I turn you back to my earlier post addressing where ginnyrose said that no suicide can ever be forgiven, that it is the Unpardonable sin, and where i said that is the Catholic, works-based doctrine. I wish someone would say something new here instead of always making me repeat myself. |
| 2012/7/4 4:20 | Profile | Trekker Member

Joined: 2011/7/29 Posts: 683 northern USA
| Re: | | QUOTE: "If a person says that he has faith in Christ and has believed, but his WORKS prove otherwise, his "profession of faith" is meaningless!"==LORDDOITAGAIN
So i guess you have never committed a single sin ever again since you became a Believer and are perfect. WOW. I sure would like to meet you. You must be GOD if you can be that perfect. Otherwise, if you have committed even one bad "work" or even one sin then i guess your "works prove otherwise and your "profession of faith" is "meaningless". |
| 2012/7/4 4:28 | Profile | Trekker Member

Joined: 2011/7/29 Posts: 683 northern USA
| Re: | | QUOTE: "Trekker,Your responses to this issue leaves me with the feeling that YOU MUST BE CONTEMPLATING suicide and you want to be assured that you will be received by the LORD Jesus upon doing so. This is the sense I get from reading your posts."==GINNYROSE
No, i want to know, as my FIRST post STATED, WHY God did not make any commandment in the OLD TESTAMENT against suicide and why OT Jewish people did not seem to have any qualms against committing it. Hmm. now i just had a thought...Joab didn't seem to have any qualms against murdering people despite the commandment against murder. Ok, so i just answered for myself the SECOND half of that question...but not the first. |
| 2012/7/4 4:32 | Profile |
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