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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : King Solomon=666 ?

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Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "Brother... It is NOT clear via scripture. If it is, please quote chapter and verse/s where SCRIPTURE states that the anti-Christ is a Jew.Anything other then that is bearing false witness."==MICCAH



All i am saying is it is clear to me. Some things don't need a chapter and verse. Is suicide a sin (even for the UNbeliever)? Cite me chapter and verse. I think there is enough evidence in the Word to suggest very highly that the Antichrist must/will be a Jew or half-Jew. Who else is a Jewish nation going to accept as the long awaited "messiah"?
Just common sense i think. Was not Judas, the first "son of perdition" a Jew?

 2012/6/30 0:02Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Trekker wrote:

"I never once believed the Left Behind rubbish"

That is awesome for you; perhaps you were not raised in churches that taught this. I would say that about 90% of evangelical churches in the USA teach that brand of End Times theology, and the other 10% don't teach about the End Times at all. That has been my experience.

I wish you would address my 6/28, 9:54 post. I am curious about your thinking on this matter.


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/30 9:05Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Left, Left, Left. This is scripture not Tims left behind fantasy.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

God's Word is fulfilled and will be fulfilled.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/6/30 22:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
All i am saying is it is clear to me. Some things don't need a chapter and verse.



You're correct in your line of thinking, even if you can't substantiate it. If you DO want chapter and verse though however, here's something to consider.

In Revelation 13, the first beast rises from the sea. The sea is a picture of the gentile nations.

But a little further in the chapter we see in verse 11, Then I saw another beast, COMING OUT OF THE EARTH. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.

If the seas are a picture of the gentile nations, what then is the earth a picture of? :)

 2012/6/30 23:32
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! EverestoSama

Ummm, although I respect your viewpoint about Revelation 13, my view is that the sea in this verse (and many others as well) is an image of spiritual and religious life.

In our days the knowledge of things that belong to the natural world is increasing but, at the same time, the church of Jesus Christ receives insight into the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus spoke about this invisible kingdom in parables only: "The Kingdom of Heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up", (Matthew 13:13 and 44). This means that Jesus hid the treasure of the Kingdom of Heaven in parables.

The invisible reality is expressed in images and symbols. We see this throughout the New Testament. It speaks of a New Jerusalem, a Tree of Life in the Paradise of God, a River of Life, of an unquenchable fire, a garment of righteousness, a spiritual Babylon, the true wife and the harlot, etc.
Evil powers are compared with scorpions or abominable birds and with mountains and islands in the sea or with hailstones and fire.

It is a spiritual man's duty to understand the images in which the Kingdom of Heaven is hidden. We must learn to "put our mind on things above"; learn how to transpose the parables (images) into the reality of the heavenly places.

Revelation uses the visible world as a picture of the invisible reality.
The Paradise, for instance, is a picture of the church. The Tree of Life is the image of Jesus Christ, and the Trees of life are the Sons of God. The waters of life in Paradise are an image of the Holy Spirit. The animals after their kind are pictures of the powers in the heavenly places. We think of: a lamb, a dove, a lion, a jackal, a serpent, a scorpion, a dragon, the locusts, and the (foul) birds. Even the heavenly bodies have been created to be 'signs'. The stars and their constellations, for instance, are images of the heavenly armies.

The separation of day and night, light and dark, also has its symbolic meaning. So has the separation between waters and waters. It says that God made the firmament and separated the waters under the firmament from the waters above the firmament. "And God called the firmament Heaven". The firmament was not heaven; it was an image of heaven.

There is a similar separation between spiritual life in the heavenly places and that on earth. The invisible life of man on earth is separated from the spirits in the heavenly places.

The flood of Noah's days is an image of the things that will happen in the latter days. At the flood, the windows of the heavens were opened and also the fountains of the great deep as the waters covered the whole earth. Similarly, the Bible states that in the latter days an invasion of powers from heaven will throw themselves on the earth and the hosts of the powers called up from the Bottomless Pit will cover the earth. The flood is an image of the great tribulation.

The spiritual life of the people who are not in Christ will then be completely overwhelmed by the powers of darkness. Jesus said: "Upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world; for the powers of heaven will be shaken" (Luke 21:25-26).

In Revelation waters, wells, rivers and seas are images of spiritual, unseen life. The earth, with its trees, green grass and shrubs, is an image of natural visible life. Man lives on earth as well as on the sea. He has a natural and a spiritual life. The great sea is the image of religious life on earth.

When a person is Born Again, he receives new spiritual life. His spirit detaches itself from the 'sea' and ascends to the heavenly places. He then lives on earth and in heaven. When he dies, he is detached from the earth; but after the spirit he remains in the heavenly places and takes up a permanent dwelling place with Jesus.

People who do not repent remain on earth and on the sea. When they die, the ties with the earth are cut and spirit and soul sink into the depth of the sea, also called the Abyss and Hades.

When the Sons of God and the angels have cleansed the heavenly places from the powers of darkness, the devil is compelled to remove his dwelling place and field of action to the earth. In a horrible way he will seize man's body, soul and spirit, and he will subdue every living thing and connect it to himself. There will be tribulation on earth as has never been before and never will be after. Blessed and holy is he whose life cannot be damaged by the enemy in the heavenly places.

In this context Paul wrote: "The rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed … for the mystery of lawlessness is already at work" (2Thessalonians 2: 3-7). The Beast that emerges from the sea, the spirit of Antichrist, has always been there. As the Beast in this vision was initially hidden below the surface of the water, so the hidden spirit of Antichrist has done his work in the church. In the endtimes, however, it emerges from the water and reveals itself in its full atrociousness. Then this spirit will be clearly recognizable. The mystery of it's existence then becomes manifest. John said: "I saw a beast rising out of the sea".


========================
In Revelation 13, the first beast rises from the sea. The sea is a picture of the gentile nations.

But a little further in the chapter we see in verse 11, Then I saw another beast, COMING OUT OF THE EARTH. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
========================

 2012/7/1 1:28Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi, again! EverestoSama

If you don't mind, I would like to add something further about the Beast which "rises out of the EARTH".

Adjacent to verse 1, another Beast rises up. This time not from the sea but from the earth.

The earth is the image of natural life, of flesh and blood.

The Beast from the sea was the spirit of Antichrist, but the Beast from the earth is Antichrist himself.

I'm sure that you can see the obvious parallel:
In the church of Jesus Christ we speak of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit through whom the Father reveals Himself. He is the Spirit of truth, (John 14:17).
In the same way the Dragon, the enemy of God, reveals himself by the spirit of Antichrist, the spirit of error, (1John 4:6).
Jesus Christ is the Word of God incarnate. Thus He is God's mouth and speaks through the Holy Spirit.
Antichrist is Satan 's mouth, speaking through the spirit from the Bottomless Pit.
The Son of God is truly man.
The Beast rising out of the earth is also a man.
Jesus Christ is the true prophet.
Antichrist is called the False Prophet, (19:20).
The Beast's horns indicate spiritual power.
The Lamb has seven horns and seven eyes, which are images of the seven Spirits of God,(Rev 5:6).
The two horns of the Lamb with which He reveals Himself in the world are the spirit of prophecy and the spirit of power by which signs and miracles occur.
Antichrist speaks as the Dragon, the father of lies and falsehood, (2Thess 2:9-12), "The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders".

So in the visible world antichrist wields the power he received from the Beast from the Bottomless Pit.

Those who live on earth, and consequently are not citizens in the heavenly places, follow Antichrist, and in doing so worship the spirit which is in him.
He who worships the Beast from the Bottomless Pit pays homage to the Dragon, "for he had given his authority to the beast", (v4).
Antichrist works with hidden, occult, and disrupting powers which he receives directly from the Kingdom of Darkness.
The mortal wound in the sixth head, the head of occultism, is healed; more powerfully than ever it supports the religion of the unfaithful anti-Christian church.

 2012/7/1 2:16Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "The futurist approach to intepreting Revelation is that everything after Ch 3 has not yet taken place.

Is it not possible that the letter was REALLY intended for those early believers and was REALLY meant to encourage THEM in their time of trouble?

In regard to 666, John said to his readers (those actual believers who receieved his letter) that with wisdom and understanding they could discover the number of the Beast and the number of his name. If, however, the Beast was not around in their day, John would have been giving them false information.

I am not saying that some of Revelation is not referring to future events (the second coming, e.g.). But it seems that based on its own language indicating a "soon" fulfillment that we should take those comments plainly, as would have the early believers to whom the book was addressed."==TMK





TMK, i am responding to this post of your's as you requested...There is not much i have to say to answer you since you have made some very vague statements, nothing specific. You clearly state that SOME of Revelations is meant to be taken for the FUTURE but some was for only the present. Ok. Yet you seem to be suggesting the the number of the beast could only have been meant for John's present time. No. You have to remember that JOHN was receiving a REVELATION, and did not KNOW the time of the end, so it is only natural that in his letters to the 7 churches he would speak as he did.

As for the number 666, it refers to a man. And the verse in Psalms that i gave suggests it refers to Solomon (IN SOME WAY). Now, Solomon was LONG DEAD by the time John wrote his letters to the 7 churches. So to say that John was giving anyone false information in writing about the number of the beast to them because he could only have been writing about someone who was living during JOHN'S life is completely missing the boat; you are altogether missing John's intent.
John was simply relating what he saw and was told in the revelation that he received. If anyone has anything to add to this, or a better explanation by all means do so.



 2012/7/1 5:29Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote: "Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Left, Left, Left. This is scripture not Tims left behind fantasy."

But in this very passage-- who is getting "taken out?" Certainly not the righteous. Why? Because when the disciples asked Jesus where they were being taken to He said that where the bodies are, the eagles (or vultures) will gather. In other words, those taken away are DEAD and the carrion birds are circlinng.

These verses are not describing a rapture of the righteous; they are describing a judgment on the wicked.


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Todd

 2012/7/1 8:04Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

By golly, you are correct TMK! I had never heard that about that passage before but you surely are correct in saying it is about judgment. Why? Because in the verse immediately BEFORE that one Jesus refers to the flood of Noah and how people were taken out. This is Matthew 24: 39-41:

39 And knew not until the flood came , and took them all away ; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be . 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken , and the other left . 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken , and the other left.

This sounds to me like a clear warning of judgment. And see, that is how to determine what an obscure passage means, by examining the verses around it...

Thank you for bringing that verse to my attention! In the past i was always confused about that passage. The Rapture people use it to support their "rapture" theory.

 2012/7/1 8:28Profile









 Re:

Types and shadows of these judgements happened in Noah's Day. They were repeated again in Jeremiah's day. They were fulfilled in actuallity upon Physical Israel in 70 AD. They will be fulfilled again, in fullness, in the Last Days. The Prophetic Law of Dual/Multiple Fulfillment. "The things that were are the things that are, & the the things that shall be." For we know that "God is no respecter of persons." "He changeth not," for "He is the same yesterday, today, & forever." See the Preterists argue, "all these prophecies already happened in 70 AD". I agree to a certain point. They were fulfilled and carried out in physical Israel. A greater fulfillment is yet to come which will be fulfilled on all of Spiritual Israel, the whole earth who names the Name. Only the remnant shall be saved, for a season, & then handed over to the dragon from the Wilderness. It's not either or, but both. Understanding Prophecy isn't like reading and studying for a Chemistry or Accounting Exam. This is all from the Mind of God, laid out from the foundations of the earth. When we see more than the masses, we see but shadows through a glass dimly. Soon we will see as face to face & know even as we are known. PTL!!!

 2012/7/1 10:10





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