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InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Because it is one of the few sins that God calls an "abomination". ... It is why God utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah from the face of the earth.



I'm sorry but I would have to disagree with these statements above.

First, there are many specific abominations mentioned in the Bible but all unrighteousness is an abomination before our righteous, holy, and just Lord;

For all that do such things, [and] [b]all that do unrighteously[/b], [are] an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(Deuteronomy 25:16)

Also, Sodom's sin and reason for destruction are explained in Ezekiel;

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good]. (Ezekiel 16:49-50)

Certainly their sexual immorality can be considered as a part of the abomination Sodom committed but first on that list in Ezekiel are, pride, idleness, and lovelessness.

Homosexuality sure is a hot topic these days and I believe that is because it is one the the biggest tools satan is using to mock the institution of marriage and the family which things are ordained by God and pictures of our relationship with Him. Also, it is an issue that we are already seeing as being used to silence Christian witness in public places, the Philadelphia trial comes to mind.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/2/11 12:43Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

I don't disagree with all that has been said thus far, yet I see this question in a different way. We all accept the truth that adultery, stealing, lying, and murder are sin. We all stumble in sin. But there is something more to the debate that is raging in America pretaining to the acceptance of homosexuality. The Gay and Lesbian movement is working to ligitimize their behavior. They are working to promote the idea that living that lifestyle is not sinful. They want their lifestyle to be accepted as normal. This is the crux of the battle.

God hates divorce, yet look how through the years of promoting divorce, it has been accepted by the vast majority of the Christian world. The Gay and Lesbian agenda will lead to the same manifestations.

Christian world, isn't that an oxymoron?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/2/11 12:56Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

TonyS

Quote:
The data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt. "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people.



Now we seem to be getting deeper into the issue, right at something which is key here. The divorce rate is something like 50%, why?
1) people do not seek God and let Him find the perfect spouse for you
2) people have a wrong perception of what marriage is in the 1st place and when they are disappointed, they quit.
3) when trials come people don't wait on God to empower them to deal with the trials.

Now when Christians marriages are in such a state it becomes SOO easy for the enemy to further pervert the sanctity of marriage. I mean is our divorce rate is 50% or better, on what grounds can we say that gay marriage destroys the sanctity of marriage? We have already done incredible damange to that because we ourselves have not obeyed. I mean we fornicate which has spiritual consequences (as well as physical) which are long-lasting. We may be forgiven but there are just some consequences that we just have to deal with afterward. If we can't get marriage right by obeying God in it, then how can we hope to correct others? It just can't work.

Quote:
I wish christians would stop totem poling sins and treat everybody alike. They tend to put homosexuals on the bottom when it comes to being concerned about them, and on top of the pole when it comes to judging them as hopeless. I get tired of christians accepting converted adulters, prostitutes, alcoholics, maturbators, and then recoiling like vipers when homosexuals seek help. They seem on the verge of throwing up when they talk to me; they watch my every move; they eyeball and analyze me, looking for errors. They can’t forget my past, as if Jesus came into the world to save everybody but homosexuals. No wonder sin is driven underground. No wonder people with life-controlling habits tend to react violently. These troubled souls are degraded; scorn is heaped upon them by a Church that wants nothing to do with queers and faggots. We are so offended by their practices, we have made their sin so scandalous, we turn them into outcasts with no hope of return.”



Christ said "whatsoever you do unto the least of your brothers you have done to me" did he not? Now let us be clear that we are to condemn sin wherever it may be. We must start with ourselves and also we must NEVER neglect our own need for cleansing. We must also remember that we too have sinned and been forgiven, how then can be be unforgiving to others? If ever I am tempted to harbour resentment or contemplate being unforgiving, I think on that and I am humbled. I remember what God has forgiven me for and I feel compelled to share that same forgiveness with others. The Lord's prayer says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trepass against us" God will forgive us accoring to the same measure of forgiveness we choose to show others.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 13:39Profile









 Re:

"They want their lifestyle to be accepted as normal"

Homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is evidence that it is genetic in some cases. Why would God make people predisposed to sin?

Granted many homosexual people became that way from abuse. And it definately should not be promoted as a healthy normal lifestyle. But if you get real, homosexuality garners such approbation because it scares people.

bub

 2005/2/11 13:40
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
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 Re:

Chanin (is that another way of spelling shannon? just curious...)

Quote:
have looked at this verse many times. To me it shows that homosexuality is not the most detestable thing- it's the roots of it. The roots of our sins (including homosexuality) is pride, loving comfort more than what is right, and not caring about others.



Yes indeed, if we focus on the symptoms (we should deal with these by the way) the solution is temporary. We must also tackle the root of sin, pride. From pride comes, disobedience which is the rejection of the precepts of God. Pride says "I don't need God or His precepts, I can do whatever I wish without consequence) We need to kill that beast first and then dealing with the symptoms will be much easier. one can cut a tree down but if it still has working roots it can regrow, but if you somehow poison the roots, that takes away the source of the tree's sustinence thereby killing it.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 13:44Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is evidence that it is genetic in some cases. Why would God make people predisposed to sin?



The enemy's whole mission is to pervert what God has created by whatever means necessary. It may or may not include causing animals to be that way also though I would not put it past him. It is not evidence that it is genetic at all, in fact there is no such evidence. Now there are some speculations out there all of which have yet to be substantiated. Being someone trained in science I also know that you can make the number say whatever you want them to.

Originally God did not make us sinful, He gave us free will. Satan came and tempted Eve and she could have said "no, leave me alone" she chose not to and ate the fruit. Adam also had the same choice and he chose unwisely. The consequence of that was that we would all be more likely to disobey God in a given situation.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 14:00Profile
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Joined: 2003/10/15
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 Re:

Quote:
We must also tackle the root of sin, pride.



It was Andrew Murray who said that the root of all sin is pride (in his book Humility) and I believe that!!!! it is the hardest thing to kill too!

And yes,"Chanin" is another way to pronounce SHANNON. I don't know why my mom didn't just spell it a normal way. I guess she knew I wasn't going to be a "normal" kind of girl! :-D

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/2/11 14:11Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
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 Re:

Chanin
Yes pride is the hardest thing to deal with. perhaps we preoccupy ourselves with the symptoms of pride because we are afraid to admit that we need to deal with it. In this world we all want to be something and killing pride would mean we would have to become nobody (ouch) What do you think?

I think the spelling of your name to be kinda cool :-)


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Farai Bamu

 2005/2/11 14:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is evidence that it is genetic in some cases. Why would God make people predisposed to sin?



First off... we are not part of the animal kingdom. To believe that you have to believe Darwinism, and reject Genesis.

Now... I have a personal belief, and that is that we are all have a penchant for some sort of sin more than another. In other words, some struggle with homosexuality, some struggle with lying. Some struggle with alcohol (that was me) and some stuggle with stealing. A lot of it has to do with the environment we grow up in. But either way, we all have some "thorn in our side". Does God ALLOW people to be born with a slant toward being gay? I don't know. (I doubt it because of all the gays I've known, every one of them grew up in a similar environment that would tend to cause that type of behavior.) There is no proof that it's genetic, therefore it is ONLY A THEORY.

But genetic or not, the Bible still calls it sin, and therefore... it is a sin. I don't care if Simba has the hots for another male lion in the pride... in humans, it's a sin.

Krispy

 2005/2/11 14:22
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is evidence that it is genetic in some cases. Why would God make people predisposed to sin?



I believe this argument is simply an attempt to justify immoral behavior without really studying the issue closely.

How do you know animals practice homosexuality? Because you see Rover mounting another male dog does that mean homosexuality is natural?

Think about this for a second. If you ever had a male dog, you know that they don't just mount other male dogs. They also mount sofas, and trees, and will mount the leg of your house guests if you're not careful. This is not homosexual behavior. This is auto-eroticism.

The only way one could show this behavior was homosexual is if one could demonstrate that the dog was desiring the male [i]gender[/i] of the animal he was mounting. One can't conclude from the observed activity alone that any animal has homosexual desires . This is just another example of a hasty judgment.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/2/11 14:28Profile





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