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Everest-san, that post @ 2012/6/11 20:38 had to be one of the best that I've read in many moons. Thank you, Sir.

 2012/6/12 1:53

 Re: Who do we worship? I am?

"Here's the thing, most of the time you see God acting in the Old Testament, it was in fact a Christophany. IT WAS JESUS ACTING THAT WAY. The One speaking to Moses from the bush, the same One Who's anger burned against Israel, Who judged them, and let them die out in the wilderness. The One Who said that He would destroy all of Israel save Moses?

Yeah, that was Jesus.

It's not very hard to reconcile the idea of the two together, if one reads the Bible. But it is hard for the modern day Christian who only reads select parts of the New Testament and has a funny distorted view of the character of God, and tries to shade the entirety of God's character by the few parts of the Gospel accounts of Jesus that they don't feel uncomfortable with.

" I mean, then we get funny ideas of God. Like He never judges, He never brings calamity, he never brings destruction. The problem is, is that He has, He does, and He will." EverestoSama

Very sound and inspiring post EverestoSama [Grant]. The problem is, that in accepting this truth that the Godhead as One is to be feared and loved and obeyed, and He DOES bring wrath upon men..[ over and over and over in scripture] then I just cannot go on in my self absorbed world of my success, my ministry, my way.

..."And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him !"...Jesus [ Jahweh ]....Jesus, who holds the keys to death and Hell is saying "Fear me!"

I think that the doctrines of extreme grace come to view in those who would avert this truth that He must be obeyed and feared. Also the doctrines that Jesus taught about following Himself.

" But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them;

"Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."

Whenever you see Cross in the New Testament substitute your name and the word death. Time to die; to your hopes, loves, successes and future, even to the extent of losing all, inwardly for sure and possibly outwardly. [ ask the martyrs ]

It no longer about the blessing God then; it is about the Conforming God and the Terrible, Fearful One that desires to conform us to His living image. This must involve failure and burning and self-denial, and for some, the cost of following Jesus is just another rainy day for my parade.

Ambition to BE myself is just another form of satanic AMBITION, the twin sister to pride. Jesus said we must die to that, and it was He who after creating the worlds stretched out His hand to create a human son and his wife. Jesus IS Jehovah and His ways or personality does not change nor evolve. He calls Himself "I AM" for this reason.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

.....Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM!".

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."

Yet today there are those who are picking up stones rather than bow and obey. They save their lives, for now.

 2012/6/12 5:07

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


Thank you, Jesus-is-GOD and BrotherTom for your encouraging words. I'd been waiting for you two to show up. Welcome to the party!

 2012/6/12 7:37Profile

Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


2Th_2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work..." We might even go so far as to say "the mystery of evil."

Why is it a mystery? For one, how did Evil start if there was no evil in the world to "model" after? We know how Adam and Eve sinned, they were tempted by ANOTHER. Lucifer was not tempted by ANOTHER, so how did God ensure (or will) that Lucifer should turn away from Him, thus serving as a useful tool in all of His predetermined counsel to bring many sons to glory? How did Lucifer know what EVIL was? What choice was presented to him? We see a choice presented to Adam/Eve, but not Lucifer.

The thing that no one will ever understand this side of heaven is an understanding of the origination of evil.

When God created Satan (Lucifer) He created a choosing creature who was/became Satan

Lucifer was also created a derivative being. He was not independent of God. God does not create anything that is INDEPENDENT of Him. Lucifer was not autonomous or self-existent or self-generative, either. All of which are attributes of God.

As Satan, he only takes that which is of God and falsifies it. He replaces that which is of God with a lie, a counterfeit. He distorts and perverts the truth. But he can do nothing, independently of God.

The idea of Lucifer falling from heaven can be found in Isa. 14:12; Ezek. 28:16; Jude 6.

Some key questions:
1) Was Lucifer's choice to rebel an unsolicited choice?
2) Where did the self-oriented pride and arrogance originate? Where did he first see it? We know where Adam and Eve first saw it, but where did Lucifer first see or imagine the concept of evil?

Adam and Eve derived their pride and arrogance from partaking of Satan. When they received his words (lie) over God's THEY RECEIVED HIM. They gave themselves to him by choosing his commands over God's. They ate of him rather than the Bread of Life.

But again, I bring you back to Lucifer. Who did he derive his nature from? How did he know what Evil was and even if he did not know (how could he), who tempted him?

Satan is a spirit being and a personal being. He is not an impersonal force.

The Biblical evidence that he is a personal being is overwhelming. Some "Christians today", like to say that he is not real, but rather a metaphor for the flesh.

Christian theology has never definitively clarified and articulated a Christian doctrine of theodicy (an understanding of the origin, source, judgment of evil). The doctrines of satanology have been weak, ambiguous and inconsistent. One of the first doctrines to be questioned and jettisoned by those who regard the Biblical record as suspect is the teaching about Satan. Satan is often regarded as a pre-scientific myth; figment of imagination of ignorant peoples or a metaphorical or literary personification of evil. He has done a good job not only hiding himself from the world, but hiding himself from the church.

Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Most unbelievers and sadly there are many believers that portray our life down here as a constant battle between God and Man. This is how Satan has maligned and perverted the Scriptures and the character of God while hiding himself.

Satan is actively working in man to move them to disregard and diminish the Biblical record of the spiritual and personal agency of him.


 2012/6/12 8:58Profile

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936

 Re: Psalms 91

Psalms 91 v 11 and 12
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Psalms 91 v 11 and 12 Satans version,
11 He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:
12 and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

A very small seemingly insignificant omission

What you should know about Inerrancy by Charles C. Ryrie moody press 1981

"The second temptation also illustrates the importance of plenary inspiration. Satan tried to intice the Lord to throw Himself off the pinnacle of the Temple by assuring Him that he could claim the promise of psalms 91:11-12 that Gods angels would guard Him. But in quoting those verses Satan omitted part of verse 11: "to guard you in all your ways." The omission distorts the meaning of the promise, which is that God will keep the righteous on their journeys,not that He will preserve them when they take needless risks. A needless risk was exactly what Satan had proposed to Christ. The Lord replied that to bank on part of a verse would be to tempt God. Instead He would rely on every word that came from God,including every word of Psalms 91:11-12."

 2012/6/16 22:18Profile

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