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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The Charismatic movement; God's blessing and gifts without Repentance.

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Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 536
America's Flyover Country

 Re:

brothagary-

You asked

Quote:
can you tell me if this move of the spirit is from god



A few things

1. Wasn't there in this meeting. Only a fool speaks as if they were authoritative on things they were not there to see in person.

2. jimp stated some exact fruit he has seen from this movement. brothagary, are you seriously suggesting that the devil is encouraging people to weep over lost souls,to read their bibles , to love Jesus with all their hearts, to be liberal givers, to love their neighbors?!?!?

jimp then asked you if you thought it was from God given its fruit. You then indicate you believe it is not. You appear to be judging based on your emotions and feelings rather than fruit. Jesus said to do the opposite.

My experience is similar to jimp. I have seen tremendous evangelism, repentance preaching, salvations, physical healings, spirit baptisms, helping of the needy, and training of leaders come from that movement.

A few more things.

1. Lisa is right. The video is made by a person trying to attack and discredit another. That in and of itself makes it highly suspect. THEY HAVE AN AGENDA.

2. It is a photshop video made by a cessationsist. What do you expect.

3. You highjacked the thread points from the Charismatic movement in the Catholic Church to a personal attack on Kenneth Hagin

4. You also posted an outside youtube video. Something the moderators have expressly said not to do. If you knew that it is rebellion to their authority.

In closing, I also made known the fact that Ken Hagin
Quote:
did not pray with anyone to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit unless they could first give a clear testimony to their repentance from sin and faith in Christ resulting in a salvation experience.



You also disagree with this?

You have several questions posed to you brothagary-

1. Did you know it was in violation of SI policy to post that outside video? Why did you do it?

2. Do you disagree with the above Hagin standard of clearly establishing a persons salvation before praying for them to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

3. Do you still think a person should judge things based upon cessatonists photoshopped video over the actual fruit those who were there know it produced?

4. Jimp said he had seem fruit of
Quote:
this move of the Spirit causes men to weep over lost souls,to read their bibles , to love Jesus with all their hearts, to be liberal givers, to love their neighbors.

he then asked if you think God or the devil produced that fruit.... well, which would it be in your mind.

You say you, "sense an evil spirit". That's bad... Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself can not stand. The devil is not producing good fruit! It's not your "spirit' sensing it... it is simply your emotions that are uncomfortable with something you are not familiar with.

If this same cessatonist had photshopped a youtube video of the day of Pentecost you would probably feel the same way. After all, everyone else there thought the Apostles were drunk!

Well brothagary... I have posed some questions to you. I await you response.

 2012/6/21 21:41Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, paul had problems at corinth and other areasif paul had problems with the fruit of his labor, we must realize there will be problems from a move of God where millions of people were added to church rolls all over the world. some of the leadership has gone astray and have lead others to go with them and this is true but there are places all over the world that noone has heard of that are preaching the gospel and doing things correctly.Jesus is still the head of His body and is still the One who can raise up and pull down and his mercies are much greater than ours.jimp

 2012/6/21 21:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:
hi, paul had problems at corinth and other areasif paul had problems with the fruit of his labor, we must realize there will be problems from a move of God where millions of people were added to church rolls all over the world.



The difference is that was the real Church, where the real Gospel was being preached. The video that brothergary posted did not contain either.

It really took all of my stomach to sit through that blasphemous mockery of the Holy Spirit presented in that Kennith Hagin video.

@brothagary

You're not wrong in what you're sensing. Don't worry about the naysayers who want to join hands with or not speak out against this rubbish. When we see examples of this in the Bible where men stand up for truth, they're always FAR outnumbered by men who would instead stand up for a lie.

Read 1 Kings 22 for encouragement. 400 "prophets of the LORD" vs one REAL prophet of the LORD.

And just like in 1 Kings 22:24, never mind when the "Zedekiah's" strike you on the cheek.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all POWER AND SIGNS AND FALSE WONDERS, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they DID NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH so as to be saved. FOR THIS REASON GOD WILL SEND UPON THEM A DELUDING INFLUENCE so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

 2012/6/21 22:43
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i can tell by everest to sama and brothagarys posts ...they were not there.jimp

 2012/6/21 23:14Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

ok solmon the first thing you said makes no scence

your wernt at the meeting so only a fool would coment with athority

so you wernt at the meetings with jesus and all the apostals when they taught ,,but you are speaking with athority as if you were there ,and with your own words say only a fool would do that

i dont know jim verry well aslo never hearing never hearing any sermons from him so0 i realy dont know how spoiritfilled he is oregarding his desenment in a matter as this ,,,,but iv herd him estem lenard raven hill ,and i herd lenard raven was good friend with and estemed david wilkinson as a true prophert and spirtual man of god ,,so after hearing many of there sermons and reading many articals and sermons ,,going by there desernmet these manfestations ar evil spirits NOT THE SPIRIT GOD


not based un my emotions weeping with grief over watching vidoes do i judge this but by the word of other wellknown men of god like carter conlon and wilkinson and raven hill
but by desermnt in my spirit wiich is not effected by emoitions

as i said to lisa ,,the vidoe itself is what iam watching and not the imposed coments ,,the behavour the body lanuage and the impressions left by only the vidoe,,,

i relise it is more then likly made by a cesasenist ,,utterely erelevent to the content of the video

so are you saying that the that was a manfestation of the spirit of god ,,

sorry if you feel like a highjacked the thread ,,my coment was in contex with the carsamatic movent it self ,as the topic sugested ,,i think in your last coment before this one ,,you your self show the link that carasmatics have with the catholic church ,,so this is still in that contex ,that was my intent to keep that in the contex of the desusion

it is not my concern wether mr hagin waited for a clear testamony before praying for baptisim of spirit ,,or before he waves is handsand yells at tham before they fall of there seats ,,that realy has nothing to do with the vidoe ,becasue it is morethen likly that most of the people in the video are allready baptised with this spirit

solom if i read si rules proply ,there is nothing wroung with posting what i did ,becasue it is not a sermon ,,that was the ruls ,no video sermons

as i said the photshop imposed coments dont effect the vidoe its self , so just as we judge or sermon or teaching or manifestation vidoe ,or tod benly been hinn or who ever ,we should be able to watch and judg righeous judment ,make a desernmet ,,as one of the gifts of the spirit is to do so ,and i beleiev the bible teaches we have the liberty to do so
i know what jimp said ,,but im going to stik to what wilinson and conlon and raven hill say ,,im sorry if you feel tht i should believ jimp ,with out knowing how gifted he is in the area of desernment ,,i wont do that

your right the devil doesnt produce good fruit ,but he produses fruit that looks good in many ways ,that is what deceptions is

he produses bad fruit that looks good ,a false faith a false gosple ,a false spirit ,a false repentence ,and a false humility as paul said

regarding your last statment a beleieve in manfestations of spirit in reveivel and toungs miricals ,,,, but also believe in the fasle kudalundi pagen spirit that is active that produces a fine conterfit experance of gifts and manfestation ,,right down to loveing you neibour and doing good works and tears and screams of joyfull bliss

so solom scince i answer your questiosn as i seemed orderd to by your self

ill kindly ask one question if you dont mind you can answer if you like

what spirit was tod bently operating in when he was in minsitery ,,was it the spirit of god

please dont freak out with my question ,it only a question

and sister lysa what do you think about tod bently spirit

blessings

 2012/6/21 23:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:
hi, i can tell by everest to sama and brothagarys posts ...they were not there.jimp



You're completely correct. Wasn't there. Fortunately for me, I've got the fruit to judge by though, which isn't fit for consumption.

I'll reiterate what Brothertom said,

Quote:
But, there was a revival within a revival so to speak, and both seeds grew up together. One was a tare seed, one the holy grain.



We see the fruits of both today, as evidenced in the video posted by brothagary (which is what I assume we're talking about). Some in the Charismatic movement may have started out as good and right, but as a whole it has far departed from the truth.

 2012/6/21 23:41









 Re:

Quote:
not based un my emotions weeping with grief over watching vidoes do i judge this but by the word of other wellknown men of god like carter conlon and wilkinson and raven hill
but by desermnt in my spirit wiich is not effected by emoitions



Though there is nothing wrong with looking into council of other tried and true men of God when discernment issues come up, it should only be the secondary move. The Word of God is what you judge things by first, foremost, and solely. There's plenty in the Word to hang this stuff up by.

The words of Carter Conlin and Wilkerson only confirm what has already been written. They're not incorrect in what they say, but they're not to be the standard by which we judge. Just saying, it's important to know WHY they speak against it, not just that they're opposed to it. Scripture will back their position up.

 2012/6/21 23:56
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

that goes with out even saying it ,,but someone will then say you interpret the word of god wrong ,,,

the bible is our foundation of truth

for me i dont see vidoes like this line up scripture

but other will say it does line up with scripture

that whay i said il stik with men like conlon and wilkison humble men of god ,that not mening im forgeting scripture if you know what i mean brother

 2012/6/22 0:04Profile









 Re:

Quote:
that whay i said il stik with men like conlon and wilkison humble men of god ,that not mening im forgeting scripture if you know what i mean brother



I gotcha, man. And I wasn't assuming your basis wasn't based on the Bible, but just when presenting something I think it's wise to stand on what the Scripture says for your defense, and not the names of men.

The Scripture is rather strait forward on many issues, including the type of stuff being shown in that video you posted. It takes some serious mangling of Scripture to get any foundation for what's being presented as "of God". But that's always been Satan's game. When he tempted Jesus, all he did was misinterpret Scripture. He plays the same game today.

And in light of that, you made quite an excellent point here;

Quote:
your right the devil doesnt produce good fruit ,but he produses fruit that looks good in many ways ,that is what deceptions is

he produses bad fruit that looks good ,a false faith a false gosple ,a false spirit ,a false repentence ,and a false humility as paul said

 2012/6/22 0:10
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, you have no idea how repulsive this is for me to hear these things about a point in my life that cost much(my family disowned me for over ten years and my wife left me and took my 4 children and divorced me)because i left catholicism.my life has been Jesus led since. this time was the beginnings of david wilkerson( he was not a charismatic but a assemblies man) it was the beginning of the church here in baton rouge which started with a baptist pastor who was filled with the Holy Spitit and started a church in his home with 5 people. in the last 10 years we have started 20000 churches around the world.men like derek prince and bob mumfort were the writers and publishers of new wine magazine.many mistakes have been made to discredit this move of God but millions have been saved and many great churches are still on the move that you never hear of.jimp

 2012/6/22 2:30Profile





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