SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics :  I Reject the Reformers

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )


No panic here, Brother. But you've sure got me curious now about it being "treatable" - I've been to ENT Specialists, etc and they all say there's nothing they can do and the same with all the others that I know that have looked for help from Drs, even my Dad.
Discover magazine had an article about it not that long ago, saying that it's not in the ear but the brain. And I downloaded a Neurologist's research on it through SPECT scan photos - where it shows that the opposite side of the brain [temporal lobe] from the ear affected is lit-up.
All of this within this last year. So I'd be curious to read what you have.

Thank you, Brother Art!

Sorry to take this so far off-topic, Bearmaster & others.

 2012/5/31 23:45

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York


Although bothersome, tinnitus usually isn't a sign of something serious. Although it can worsen with age, for many people, tinnitus can improve with treatment. Treating an identified underlying cause sometimes helps. Other treatments reduce or mask the noise, making tinnitus less noticeable. 2005
Read discussion page 19

How tinnitus is treated by managing TMD

Tinnitus can be treated by managing TMD, specifically through the use of dental orthotics (splints, nightguards) to improve abnormal jaw mechanics and tracking.23–25

Tullberg and Ernberg26 treated patients with TMD and tinnitus using a variety of methods, including occlusal splinting, jaw muscle exercises, and relaxation. They reported that 43% of the patients experienced an improvement in their tinnitus after these interventions.

... etc.


The next URL is Research Protocol – Feb. 22, 2012

Evaluation and Treatment of Tinnitus: A Comparative Effectiveness Review

I'll leave at these. Again, I am in no way qualified to analyze or offer a credible opinion on the above treatments. But reports like these lead me to believe there are treaments for Tinnitus.

I can remove this post once you copy it.

Arthur Biele

 2012/6/1 1:04Profile

Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: I Reject the Reformers

QUOTE: "The protestant reformers persecuted and put to death those I consider the true believers of Jesus Christ."==BEARMASTER

Bearmaster, i am really at a loss to know what you are talking about. Martin Luther never put to death anyone. Neither did Calvin.

You state that the reformers were unbiblical but you haven't given any support for that statement, so i have no clue what you mean. Luther rebelled against the false doctrines of the Catholic church. What was unbiblical about that?

EDIT: Well, after some research on Calvin i find that there is a great deal of controversy about his life. As for the death of Michael Servantus, Calvin approved of his prosecution for heresy (Servantus denied the Trinity) but sought mercy for him when he was sentenced by the court to death by burning in that he asked for beheading instead of burning but the court denied the request and the man was burned alive instead. As i read about Calvin and the churches at that time i am left with the impression of a religious spirit...but that may just be my impression, i don't know.

 2012/6/1 1:13Profile


Brother Art, you are a very thoughtful person. Thank you so much for this. Amazing that I've never read of the connection between TMD[TMJ]. I have that as well and that also began in at the same time.
Brother, I wouldn't remove this post. We have no idea who else your post may help. The Bearmaster won't mind. He has compassion on sick folk too and besides, it did start with the discussion about Luther ... which I have been thinking more about, thanks to you - because as you mentioned it - my main after-thought was, that they didn't know back then what was causing it and if I didn't know and was left to just imagine, I can see how the enemy could harass the person's thoughts with lies about what it could be. It's the not knowing, as they say, that could have caused tormenting doubts and all, back in those medically primitive years.

It's just that my faith is so settled into Romans 8:28,29 and believing that nothing happens to us that's not for the good of conforming us into His Image and what Paul said about his thorn and I wished that Scriptural relief for Luther as well - a better ending for him. You understand.

Last week, I was thinking about "The Saints and pain". Actually, I was talking to The LORD about it and asking Him why we are so afraid of pain and get so angry at it and I felt that He answered with - it's because of "'self' pity and because we love our own flesh". I was thinking about it in regards to those that are being persecuted and how we would take it. How I run so quickly for the aspirin when my head hurts, etc. and asking the LORD why I was doing that.
I forget the name of the martyr but that story that someone posted here has stayed with me about him. The people that knew him, asked that he would give them a sign that he could bare the pain of being burned at the stake and he said that he would. After he had been in the fire for some time and just before he was engulfed - towards the end - he raised his arms above his head and I think he clapped his hands three times. Oh, Alleluia - What a Saviour, What a Friend!
I believe Romans 8:28 with all of my heart. Nothing is happenstance or coincidence. He's in it all, to teach us something or other and mainly to just put our confidence in Him alone - that He is Good. Like my foolish debating with you over Luther, led to you posting this help for me. Glory to GOD!

Bless your kind and patient heart, Brother, and may He Bless you with the confidence/peace that He's in it All!

Thank you!!

 2012/6/1 2:57

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York


Dear Jesus-is-God

May God bless you and heal you. I hope you checked out the other url's, particularly the last one, when you get a chance.

Arthur Biele

 2012/6/1 7:36Profile

 Re: Trekker

Brother I am not one to post and copy extensive links that woukd be wearisome to the soul. Another thing is I simply do not know how to copy and paste. Probably a blessing.

But you do pose a fair question. If you Google under Luther's writings against the anabaptist or Calvin's writings against the anabaptist you will find the answer. Different sites come up which quoe how these men and their followers regarded the anabaptist.

I have also referred to The Ababaotist Story by William Estepp and The Reformers and Their Steochildren by Leonard Verduin. Both these books were written in the 1960's and document the attitude of the reformers toward the anabaptist.

Also you can listen to Denny Kenniston's audio series on the anabaptist. That can be downloaded off of Sermon Index.

Hope this helps.


 2012/6/1 8:23

Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK


Trekker wrote:

"Bearmaster, i am really at a loss to know what you are talking about. Martin Luther never put to death anyone. Neither did Calvin."

With all due respect for Calvin as a reformer and a man used by God to advance his kigdome , Im not prejudiced to deny the historical truth conserning his case. The truth of the matter is, he is guilty in consenting to the death of a heretic called Servetus, for those who want facts from original sourses here they are:

Calvin had some personal issues with Servetus,in a letter to William Farel he wrote:

"Servetus has just sent me a long volume of his ravings. If I consent he will come here, but I will not give my word; for if he comes here, if my authority is worth anything, I will never permit him to depart alive (Latin: Si venerit, modo valeat mea autoritas, vivum exire nunquam patiar).[1]

The only disagreement with the others who were for his execution, was that Calvin wanted decapitation and the rest wanted the "unitarian" heretic to be burned at stake.

"I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed on him; but I desired that the severity of the punishment be mitigated." [2]

"not permit him go alive" - Here is his intention made clear in his own words. We fotget that he lived in a non-tolerant age who was religiously fanatic. To show his devotion to orthodox christianity and his zeal against a heretic, he gave his consent and contributed by his influence to the execution of a man, just because he was a heretic.

Immagine what would have happend today if an influencial evangelical leader was pro and supported the execution of a Jehovas Witness or a Oneness pentecostalism, because they denied trinity?. We all will think this man is "out of his mind". Calvin and Luther lived in an age of non-tolerance and fanaticism and christians should take in account these historical circumstances and be as impartial as possible.

[1] Durant, Story of Civilization,2

[2] Calvin to William Farel, August 20, 1553, Bonnet, Jules (1820–1892) Letters of John Calvin, Carlisle, Penn: Banner of Truth Trust, 1980, pp. 158–159.)


 2012/6/1 8:38Profile

 Re: Let us be clesr...

Let us be clear on one thing. Sevetus was NOT an anabaptist. I doubt very seriously if be was a believer in Jesus Christ. There is no denying he held wacky views. Unorthodox views. Should he have been put to death for his wacky views? No. Was Calvin involved in putting him to death? I honestly don't know. I do know from reading about this time that those who disagreed with the established church, be it Catholic or Reformed, were considered heretics and put to death. This included the anabaptist.

When one reads the writings of Felix Manz, Comrade Grebel, Pilgrim Marpeck, Michael Sattler, and other anabaptidt there is clearly a testimony of Jesus Christ. For that matter Look at Martyrs Mirror. This is a work that gives an account of those defenseless believers who died for their faith. Most if the accounts were the anabaptist. These were the believers in Jesus.

So let us not put Sevetus in this sane group. I am sure that the anabaptist of his day woukd have repudiated his view. But the anabaptist would have banned him from their fellowships whereas the prevailing trend was to burn all heretics. Such was the church state institution of that time.


 2012/6/1 9:12

 Re: The Series By Denny Kenniston

I do mean to sound like a broken record. But if you are an audio person and reading these accounts are laborious and tedious. Then there is an excellent audiov series by Denny Kennuston on early ababaptist history. These were a series if messages given in a tent meeting. So this is not dry history but relevant truth for our day. I find myself listening to these messages twice to get their full impact.

These messages are available on Sermon Index.


 2012/6/1 9:30

Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


Would simply seeking to follow the Lord Jesus be the best solution to this thread, I mean why declare that you follow after one side or the other why not simply declare to follow Jesus all the days of your life?

I often think about the way some pull out the words of another from years ago and use them to discount everything that person has said or done. I think it causes me to be very thoughtful and careful about what I post. Who know at some future date someone might come along and take away a few lines of what I said and declare things about me to. Something to think about, what we say and type does matter.


 2012/6/1 9:33Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy