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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : C H Spurgeon - Free Will, A Slave

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Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Might do a study of the Greek in these verses: the faith of Christ.

 2012/5/20 22:19


Might do a study of the Greek in these verses: the faith of Christ.

Have done so and count this reality a blessed gift.

Have also studied out un-conditional eternal security and cannot find Scripture to back it.
From Genesis to the Revelation, I see free-will and those that can fall away from the faith given them - as GOD won't hold a man against his will or his desire to fall away.

A few examples -

1Tim 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

2Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Mat 24:9-13 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end

Heb 10:26-29 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant,
wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 2012/5/20 22:48


Hey Jesus is God, I have not done a study on the Greek in these verses, I was wondering if someone had...seemed like they might be instructive.

Guess you all are into debating :)

I will go over these. Verses myself, and then share what I find.

 2012/5/20 22:56

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi, so what you are saying is that Jesus is not able to keep you or that what you committed to against that day.that jonah had free will... that saul of tarsus had free will... i am not a calvinist but when you read the bible without bias the facts on both sides jump out at you... jimp

 2012/5/20 22:58Profile


Hi Lisa. No, my intentions are not for the sake of debate but because there is too much at stake in these last days to get this teaching wrong - including the GOD given freewill of man.
Greek grammar is indeed important when studying these teachings fully, so I encourage you.
As well as what the Church taught, from the time of the first church until Calvin.
Lengthy study and much more than just these few verses I've posted.

All His Best.

 2012/5/21 0:01


Yeah, it is very important...just looking at "the faith of Christ"' it is amazing what rests just on that. Going to take a lot of prayer and examination.
Great to reason this out before Him :)

 2012/5/21 0:08

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi, falling away is something that the jews understand for not all of the family of israel where worshippers of YHWH. the fact is all members of the body of Christ are worshippers of Jesus and those that are hangers on are there for another reason. if the tribulation come and there is no rapture ,do you think there will be a falling away ? i am not holding on to my salvation;i am resting in the finished work of Jesus who told me that if i repent and believe into Him than i would have zoe life (eternal God like )and He is forever making intercession for me.He said that no man can pluck me out of His hand and that nothing in the earth or over the earth ,neither death nor life can change my position in Him.i serve a big God and i am some what insignificant in this matter for while i was yet a sinner He died for me because He loved me from before the foundation of the world.jimp

 2012/5/21 2:56Profile


Hi Jim, So you're saying that only the Jews could "backslide" or "apostasize" [fall away] though all warnings of apostasy in the New Testament are to those that know/knew Christ and that despite what the early Church taught, right up until Calvin - that a person can choose to seperate themselves from Christ and faith in Him - you feel that no one who has tasted of salvation can fall away - only the Jews? And that "Christians" cannot change their minds about whether they want to go the whole way with Him and are even kept against their own will - but not the Jews? That Jews had/have freewill but we do not?

If the prodigal had died in his sin and didn't choose to come back to the father - would he be saved 'in' his sin?

Have you not met anyone that has fallen away, in all of your yrs in the church? I know I have and it's increasing and that is exactly 'why' I am so concerned and I am finding out that most are/were from the osas camp and the Word says that this will only increase in the last days [though the Reformed camp don't believe these last days verses are relevant] - during the time of the prophesied falling away and I believe that Scriptural warnings need very much to be sounded out.

Just a few more for now ...

2Pe 2:18-22 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[Seven times worse?]
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[Hebrews 6:4-8]
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Joh 15:5,6 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Rom 11:19-21 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Greek Grammar - "continuous action" of -

John 3:15, " order that everyone believing may have eternal life in him."
John 3:16, " order that everyone believing in him should not perish but should have eternal life."
John 3:36, "The one believing on the Son has eternal life."
John 5:24, "The one hearing my word and believing him who sent me has eternal life."
John 6:35, "the one believing in me shall never thirst."
John 6:40, "...that everyone beholding the Son and believing in him should have eternal life."
John 6:47, "The one believing has eternal life."
John 11:25, 26, "The one believing in me, even though he dies he shall live; and everyone living and believing in me shall never die."
John 20:31, " order that by means of believing you may have life in his name."
Romans 1:16, "it is the power of God to salvation to everyone believing."
1 Corinthians 1:21, "it pleased God ... to save the one believing."

Jas 5:19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2Pe 3:14-18 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

GOD Bless!

 2012/5/21 12:13



Here is where your theology (and any who believe salvation can be lost) goes right in the ditch. THIS is one of the dividing lines between saving faith, and every other kind of faith. ANY who preach that salvation can be lost are false teachers, period!

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

The believer "HATH" everlasting life, and if that life is everlasting it cannot end. He is in present possession of everlasting life, which life cannot end.

As a blood bought child of God it was not possible to pay the ransom my sins deserved, that being the case, where do you think I can come up with the currency to RETURN the payment, cancelling the ransom?

If the prodigal had died in his sin and didn't choose to come back to the father - would he be saved 'in' his sin?

If the prodigal had died in his sin, would he have been any less a son?


 2012/5/21 12:50

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi, yes this is why the term osas is no where in the doctrine of eternal security of the believer.a believer is continuing in his belief. we are into Christ and as we are in the tree of life we are not to fear or fret;we abide in Him. in all the years in my life ministering to folks, i have met more who were beat down by guilt and shame in that they somehow committed the unpardonable sin than those who were proud they walked away. i only know one man i would say that has crucified Jesus afresh with his unbelief but many who needed much teaching on how great God is and that His mercies do last forever.this is why i argue for security. i am not calvinist but maybe compassionist.Jesus blood was a dear price to pay for we who believe and it is a powerful agent that does not cover sin but takes it away.jimp

 2012/5/21 12:51Profile

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