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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : C H Spurgeon - Free Will, A Slave

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Lee, you don't understand love, do you?
As I told Brother Gary earlier, I love you in The LORD. It's His Love that He's put into my heart for everyone, not mine - and yes, for everyone - so I cannot pray that over you nor anyone else here. I read your post and went offline and shed tears for you.
I pray that the goodness of GOD and His Mercy follow you all the days of your life and I give you my permission to continue to pray His utmost severity of His judgment over me for as long as you feel that you need to - Amen, and Amen!

I know love very well, and having seen your love in action ma'am, can clearly see that it's a farce. Jezebel does the same soft pedal when confronted with her judgment as well.

Saul was afraid to commit this judgment to the Lord, David relished it. All I am looking for is an amen to the Lord judging between us to the utmost of His severity. Saul was afraid because he didn't know God, but David knew God and trusted His judgment.

When confronted with this, fearfulness surprises the hypocrites.

The thing the hypocrite doesn't recognize is that God will judge in this manner anyway, but is afraid to acknowledge it.

Bearmaster, stay if you must for the tribulation period, but I won't be here.


 2012/5/23 18:27


You're blinded by hatred, Joe and that's a fact.
The reason your "prayer" doesn't cause me fear is because I've prayed that same prayer over myself for most of my saved life. That GOD would judge me in anyway that He sees fit in this life so that I would not have to face Him with things that I hadn't given over to Him while alive.

I've been Post-trib also since the mid-80's so I'll also pray that you'll remain strong in the days ahead. Perfect love casts out all fear!

Now, I think you are wasting someone else's web-space with your own personal problems with me that only began once I disagreed with you over "obedience" through a later email and a thread on obedience to GOD - before that - your first PM to me was calling me "Deborah" [which I do not believe than or now] and our emails were friendly -- so I find you a bit unstable and I can't be a party to using up someone else's forum for anymore answers of this type. Please try to pull it together Lee and see when this hatred of yours started, as you've been reminded enough times on this website through similar dialoges with me. I won't be able to reply to you again in good conscience. This is a waste of webspace and precious time.
Take care of you.

 2012/5/23 19:02


And Joe, when Mao took over China, many believers who were brought up on pretrib gave up their faith and turned away from Jesus. Pray tell may you not be one if them.


 2012/5/23 19:24


Of the 44 times that "doctrine" is mentioned, here's just a few.
2Timothy was Paul's last letter as he prepared from prison to be martyred.

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

2Ti 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Ti 4:2-8 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.


2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward,
not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I left this one off of the list that mention "all men" and "the world".

Thank you, Brother Solomon, for a calm yet passionate for souls post.

 2012/5/23 20:23

Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 531
America's Heartand


Calvinism's Reality

"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death, knowingly and willingly incur their guilt. It is not human authority that speaks, it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule for His Church." John Calvin

Calvin said that if you don't believe heretics should be killed, you are worthy to be killed. Of course CALVIN was the one who determined who the heretics were in his world. Basically a one man judge, jury, and execution squad. He even sent out his own form of KGB to find folks not cow towing to his rules so he could jail or kill them. Did you also notice that calvin claimed it was not him doing it? Notice he said ,
It is not human authority that speaks, it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule

He says God is the one who makes him murder and persecute those who do not agree with every jot and tittle of his theology!!!! Is that not grounds to be called a false prophet? If any did this today in the Assemblies of God, Methodist, Prophetic Movement, or whatever... would they not immediately be called a false prophet?!?!?! Just be fair, honest, and consistent in everything!

Should heretics be burned at the stake, as Calvin practiced? If you say no, you should be glad you don't live in Calvin's day, or else he might have burned you alive!! All this just for not baptizing babies or for daring to believe that Jesus paid for the sins of all mankind.

He executed 57 people, and excommunicated 66. He also jailed a great many more for no reason other than tiny differences in theology. He even surpassed Augustine in severe treatment!! Like Augustine, Calvin quotes Lk 14:23 to support and justify persecuting and punishing heretics.... of course it is again heretics by Calvin's definition only.

(Beza, Calvins successor at Geneva, also wrote a tract justifying burning heretics, i.e murdering non-calvinists)

From the venomous vitriolic anger I hear from so many Calvinist's aimed at any who would dare to disagree with them I have no doubt that many of the followers of this flawed theological system would line us all up and martyr us today for daring to believe Jesus died for the sins of all men.... or those who don't practice infant baptism. Calvin executed several for not agreeing with him on infant baptism. I hear that same angry hatred in many of the Calvinists voice in our day. I have read it on threads here on SI. This all done "in the name of God". Heaven help us!

When a great tribulation comes it may well be that many true followers of Jesus will have their lives martyred at the hands of the well meaning Calvinist's. It certainly is the exact thing that happened before. Christian's killed by the Calvinist's. History often repeats itself. After all, they would just be following the works of their forefather.

Take an honest historic look at the Anabaptists and the extreme persecution they took from Calvin as well. Heartbreaking! Calvin was himself one of the harshest persecutors of Christians.

Sorry, but who needs a theology developed by a man that had no fruit of the Spirit and was a murderer of those who followed Christ... all done while he claimed to be the "elect and chosen of God".

It is astounding anyone holds to those errors he espoused. That is the primary reason you often hear the term, "The doctrines of grace" , rather than ,"Calvinism". However, they are the same thing....identical.... but to avoid the shame of affiliating with Calvin many create a deceptive name, "doctrines of grace". This helps avoid the shame of being equated with a persecutor of faithful Christians and carrying the name of one who martyred many of Christ's saints. But hey, a rose by any other name is still a rose! "Doctrines of Grace" and "Calvinism"... its the same identical thing.

After an honest look it seems we might find that rather than just persecuting Christian's that Calvin deemed heretics it may have been Calvin who was the actual heretic.

*edited for punctuation and clarity*

 2012/5/23 20:51Profile

Joined: 2011/11/18
Posts: 31


WOW! I do not know how many times I have heard people say "you Calvinist always attack everyone who do not agree with you!" From what I have read here, and other posts, it seems the anger is the other way around.

Bottom line - Does man have the right to say what God can and cannot do? Does man have the right to declare God has no right to have sovereign control over Everything? Does the creation have any right to question or challenge the creator?

Some of the responses on this thread have been out to left field, they have twisted and altered the original post and this conversation is going nowhere.

It seems some rather rely on the early church fathers to make their claims opposed to scripture. If we go far enough back, prior to reformation, we might as well declare catholicism is the correct way to go if we want to reply on this method. I for one can no longer be on this forum as it does not promote revival......May the Lord continue to grow those who have a heart to grow and may the original article provide answers for those who are searching.


 2012/5/23 22:15Profile


Onesetfree, you posted an article that begins it's aim specifically at "Arminians" and then wonder with a "Wow" why there are the responses that there are.

Please know, that I would love to have just one thread that debates these differences using "Scripture Only" as well, and have asked for such within this thread.

On a forum that I was on before I found SI, we were not allowed to do anything BUT use Scripture in our discussions. There were rules of debate and that's what they were called. There was even a section where only two people would be allowed to 'debate' their opposing view-points but that website closed down for some reason. It was strictly theological discussions and the discussions went very well.

Nothing is more of a grace grower and a help to our own Biblical knowledge than to discuss His Word together - but the debates that arise here get very personal.

The only reason the ECFs were brought up is because I found two quotes from Calvinist Authors that stated that eternal security was not known to the Church before Calvin, so I did a search, typing "early church fathers - eternal security" into the search engine and came up with more than I could post on just this one aspect of Calvinism and more than I could possibly post here on the other teachings. That one statement, written by two Calvinist Authors, stating that this doctrine was unknown to the early church, prior to Calvin, was what launched me onto a two entire day and night search on the foundations of Calvinism - but I'd gladly discuss this Sola Scriptura and would look forward to the same debate rules that I was exposed to and adhered to in the past.

eta: clarity

 2012/5/23 22:59


And Joe, when Mao took over China, many believers who were brought up on pretrib gave up their faith and turned away from Jesus.

And they turned away because they were not of us who HAVE everlasting life. They were impostors that were simply weeded out. I have already had my stare down a gun barrel from the unfriendly end for my faith, the only shame was that I needed to stick around a bit longer preaching salvation to those lost in religion.

Ok JIG time for you to mock again....


Pray tell may you not be one if them.

No worries there, that is the beauty of having everlasting life.

That is kind of like praying for the souls of dead people, their fate has already been sealed.


 2012/5/23 23:24

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2071

 Re: OP'er


Thanks for your OP and your LP...much appreciated!

Spurgeon was not only passionate about doctrine,but passionate about souls.

I'd like to answer your questions in your LP.

Ques. 1) "Does man have the right to say what God can and cannot do?"

Answer: NO

Ques. 2) "Does man have the right to declare God has no right to have sovereign control over Everything?"

Answer: NO

Ques. 3) "Does the creation have any right to question or challenge the creator?"

Answer: NO

How did I do? Did I get them right?

You then wrote,

"I for one can no longer be on this forum as it does not promote revival."

Please don't go! Don't leave angrily.

And as far as this forum promoting revival or no, neither you nor I can thoroughly answer that.

But it may very well be that it indeed is promoting revival in the hearts of some.

Unlike the Rodney Howard Browns' of today, I do believe that Revival IS a Sovereign move of God.

May God move Sovereignly, even as He did in Genesis 1:2, and has done from the beginning, and shall do to eternity.

And I am certain that your prayer, "May the Lord continue to grow those who have a heart to grow and may the original article provide answers for those who are searching", is heard and even answered,

"And this is the boldness which we have before Him, that if we should be requesting anything according to his will, He is hearing us. And since we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have requested from Him." 1 John 5:14,15

I know the LORD is answering that prayer in my own heart,and am persuaded that He's doing the same in others'.

So be not discouraged...take heart!

 2012/5/23 23:26Profile


Joe, you quoted Bearmaster's post to you and then drag me into it - so may I ask why?

 2012/5/23 23:28

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