The Sermon Index moderators have pointed out this web site is accessed by people from around the workd. Makes ne wonder what believers in restricted countries woukd make of this thread. Particularly those who are in prison and dying for the faith. It has been said that those whov argue theology have too much time on their hands.

Just my thoughts.

Bearmaster.

Ann

I am only looking for an amen, so one more time.

May the Lord judge between me and thee to the utmost severity of His judgment! Will you give me a hearty AMEN?


OJ

Lee, you don't understand love, do you?
As I told Brother Gary earlier, I love you in The LORD. It's His Love that He's put into my heart for everyone, not mine - and yes, for everyone - so I cannot pray that over you nor anyone else here. I read your post and went offline and shed tears for you.
I pray that the goodness of GOD and His Mercy follow you all the days of your life and I give you my permission to continue to pray His utmost severity of His judgment over me for as long as you feel that you need to - Amen, and Amen!

Have a Blessed day.

@ Jesus-is-GOD

That was a very mature response and post you gave. I agree totally.
Interestingly if HE does judge us in any area it only moves us into a much closer representation of HIM. It works far to our good and lifts us up to spiritual heights most others never reach because they are not open to HIS judgements that create growth and character.

Be encouraged! Your example is inspiring to many others. I know it is not done for that reason... but It seems to me we should encourage and acknowledge others when they have been a good example.

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Christiaan

John 6:32-71 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

"""""Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."""""

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

How can any read this and believe the foreknowledge of God only pertains to those that "would", for there are none that "would". Salvation has come down from the Father and He, (Salvation) is the Bread of Life, He that eats of this Body and Blood is who the Father Has given to the Son.

John 17:21-26 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also,

(((((whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am;))))

that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Who sent them to Jesus?

How is Jesus glorified?

John 17:10-11 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

How are we glorified?

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Living according to who's works?

How can any man read the scriptures and believe that man has anything to do with procurring his ((own?)) salvation?

"None can, "would" or will come, unless the Father draw,
(drag, kicking and screaming) and give us to the Son who is the only One that can raise anyone at the last day.

The foreknowledge of God does not depend on those that will, but on the Father who chooses the elect by His will.

When all on this forum with their isms have given their piece to quander, there is only One that counts. JESUS.

His words of truth in me by the Father: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

In the not to distant future the National Defence Act will be activated. Martial Law will be declared. The Federal Government has some very nice accomodations prepared for the remnant called FEMA death camps. We will be transported in nice white box cars with shackles. We will be introduced to a machine that looks like a bowflex. But it is a guillotine. Saints get the picture.

In light of persecution that is sure to come to America are you still going to argue this topic. You are arguing a topic that the church had argued over 2000 years with still no resolution. Yet something tells me when we are dragged to the box cars you will still be arguing this.

Saints please wake up. You have far more serious issues facing you. And no pretrib rapture is going to takr you away.

Posted by Bearmaster.

"""And no pretrib rapture is going to takr you away."""

I would wager my life that My Bridegroom will come and collect me His Bride and take me to His Father's House, where He said are many mansions, for who, to keep His Bride out of harms way. Not of this earthly tribulation.


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Joe 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

I am waiting for the Bridegroom to come and take me to His Father's House.

The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit which are the oil of my lamp, shinning until He comes for His Bride, which I am.

Tribulation or Rapture, which of these are "words of comfort"?

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

@ bearmaster

I couldn't agree more in principle. However, here is the spot at which the rub happens in the situation you mentioned.

If those death camps were to happen I would be sharing that ANYONE there could repent and believe the Gospel. They could enter eternity in right standing with God through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ if they will repent and believe.

The Calvinist can not do that. They DO NOT believe Christ died for all men. All they can say is , "Well, if you are one of the chosen and elect we will see you in heaven.. if not you will go to hell". That's all there is in that system. They can't share the message of the Gospel that tell's men if they repent and embrace the Gospel of Jesus they will be saved. Do you see it?..... in Calvinism the sharing of the Gospel simply doesn't matter. If they are, "called and elect" , they will be saved regardless of whether anyone ever shares the Gospel with them or not. If they are not, "the called and elect", then they will go to hell no matter how much repenting and looking to the cross they do. There is no point to sharing the Gospel in Calvinism.

If you believe Christ died for the sins of mankind and that God wants all men to be saved( as shared in a plethera of scriptures) then the tenets of Calvinism are at total cross roads with your thoughts. If you believe Jesus died for the sins of the world, and that God wants all people to embrace His plan of salvation at the cross of Christ, and that those who perish in hell do so outside of God's will...that He wanted them to embrace His plan of salvation... and those thoughts motivate you to evangelism and sharing our faith then you will not be able to be Calvinist. It violates the very cores of their belief system.

I appreciate your thoughts and heart on this issue bearmaster (interesting name by the way... is there a story with it?) However, those principles I mentioned are far to dear .... and purchased as far to great a price - the very blood of God- to just let them be disassembled by a belief system that is not in line with the overwhelming balance of scripture.

Blessings Brother!

There is going to be a rapture or a general resurrection. But 2Thes.2 as well as the gospel accounts make it clear believers will experience the tribulation. This does not imply being under God's judgement. But it does imply persecution. Believers will experience persecution.

Interesting to note that since election is being argued in this thread, Jesus said that for the sake of the elect he has shortened the days. So you Calvinistic get preoared. God had chosen you to go through persecution.

Bearnaster.