| Re: |
Quote: Someone pointed out something earlier in this thread that was pretty amazing. When we read the bible, we should read it as if it never had chapters and verses because in it's original, there was no such structures placed on it. It read like a continues saga.
So you will guarantee that we surely will not die if we take it?
This what Adisciple brought out in his post,
About the mark of the beast... please read Rev. 13.16-14.1 taking out the chapter division (which was never there in the first place).
You'll note that Rev. 14.1 tells us of certain ones who have the name of the Lamb and His Father written in their foreheads.
Question. Do you think this means that these ones have Jesus and Jehovah (or Yahweh) written literally across their forheads? Do you see yourself safe from the mark of the beast by having J-e-s-u-s written across your brow in indelible ink? Or 7-7-7, maybe?
If the Mark of the Beast is a physical microchip implantation, what is the physical mark that the Father will put on Christians?
| 2012/5/19 23:32|
| Re: |
You start with an assumption and then try to reason backwards. Satan is a known counterfeiter, to start with the implementation and nature of his counterfeit and then try to get a clue about what the orignal is, is just a misunderstanding you have.
But the answer to your question is in this thread. It's an audio file that addresses it, the speaker corrects your assumption from a "physical mark" to an "observable sign" by comparing scripture with scripture. However this is an advanced study, and someone has to tell you that your basic orientation to express things like "You know, that chip will not damn anyone to hell" would make it very difficult for you to understand it. It is one thing to express a doubt about current beliefs within Christianity, it's another thing to be expressively pro-chip and trying to convey that "we know it's harmless" for being implanted into human beings.
Actually we do not know that, and secondly it's not true, and third it's expressively forbidden by God.
| 2012/5/20 4:07||Profile|
| Re: |
It's also an assumption to believe that the microchip is the mark of the beast.
The problem with those that study the book of Revelation is the lack of comparing scripture with scripture, it's more like comparing scripture with the daily news and that is where most people run into error.
I could really get into this scripture comparing with scripture regarding the book of revelation but because I respect the sites webmaster, I refuse to do that, because the thread would turn into a bloodbath and it's not worth it.
Quote: Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment. :-)
You start with an assumption and then try to reason backwards.
| 2012/5/20 8:06|
| Re: |
I also think that the microchip is not the mark if the beast. The book if Revelation is pretty symbolic with much imagery. I do believe a series if future events were envisioned by John that give rise to the return of Jesus. But I don't think that the microchip is the envisoned mark.
When one looks at Rev.13 there is worship of the beast or antichrist. Then the mark is implied. I find myself agreeing that the mark is ore of a spiritual sign. Satan's seal of those who worship his antichrist.
The believer will be sealed in the Holy Spirit to show that they belong to God. We see this in Eph.1 and 4. And conveyed in Rev.7 and 14.
I profess to be no prophesy expert. But I believe those who are saying the mark is a spiritual sign are more on Target.
N. Korea and Eritrea are two countries that are examples of what awaits in Revekation. Both of these countries have oppressive governments that are antichrist in nature. Both of these countries command allegiance to the state. If you worship Jesus you are executed or jailed.
In both of these countries the followers of the antichrist system do not have a visible mark. But they show their devotion to their demonic leader by displaying his picture or bowing in his presence, etc. After the recent death of Kim Jung Il of N. Korea people went crazy with orchestrated grief over this man's death. They did this in showing their devotion to him. Of course this man will be judged by God for the thousands of believers who died under him.
I share the above to suggest that allegiance to antichrist can be expressed in other ways. Not nessariky a microchip.
I think the mark is more spiritual than literal.
| 2012/5/20 8:54|
| Re: |
I run the risk of having certain members of this forum get on my case about posting conspiracy. But I think we can agree the war in terror is a reality we live with. 9/11 and the ensuing Patriot Acts and homeland Security are not conspiracy but reality. Can we agree on this?
I can see something in the not too distant future where another major terrorist attack could occur. We pray to God that it won't. But just think if another 9/11 attack occurred. People will be screaming for the government to do something. Peace and safety. Government mandates that we prove ourselves to be good citizens. You get the picture.
Here us a more likely scenereo that woukd occur. Americans would need to show their loyalty to the state. Do this by taking a chip and thus track you. Or else visit your local ____ camp. Or detention center to have the situation explained more thoroughly. Here believers will be faced with a xhouce. Loyalty to the state or loyalty to Christ.
Sants this occurred in Rome in the first few cenuries of the spread if the gospel. Christians were persecuted to the point of death because they would not sacrifice to Caesar. The sacrifice was a means to prove their loyalty to the state. They could still worship Jesus. But they needed to be loyal Romans by sacrificing to Caesar. But no go. And you know the rest of the story.
What I suggest above is a far mire likely sceneteo. Films please before you jump on ne do the research. I believe there are discerning people who know the turbulant times we are living in. You know there is a war on terror taking place. You know that American citizens particularly Christians are under suspician. We are under survielance. This is not fiction or conspiracy but fact.
I invite you, Google National Defence Authorization Act. Or NDAA. This is an act passed by Congress and signed by the President. The act revokes Passe Comitatas. In essence the President can declare martial law and suspend due process.
The implications for the believer are very sobering. Greg challenged us to study the history of the martyrs. Read Martyrs Mirror. Read Foxes Book of Martyrs. Read Richard Wormbrandt. Listen to Art Katz and Denny Mennaston in the history of the martyrs. Look at how the saints are perservering in foreign countries. More importantly. Read the New Testament, particularly Revelation. For I belueve we will soon see persecution in our land.
Posted by Bearmaster.
| 2012/5/20 9:31|
| Re: |
quote from youtube
Lindsey Williams, a Pastor with Elite (illuminati) connections thru the Grace of God, has stated that the name of the game for these Elites is control and that the Obamacare plan is not a health care plan at all - as quoted directly from these Elites. The dream here and the research explains much.
FRED, Federal Reserve economic data , new world order
FRED means Peace Ruler....aka AntiChrist
check the bible , in the beginning of first 3 and 1/2 years , the antiChrist is a FALSE peace ruler (peace keeper). (Daniel 9:27) 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3
obama , he might be the person to paved the way for antichrist.
my thought : (1 cent opinion)
when a person have bio-chip implanted in his body,
basically, he seems like a commodity, he lost his freedom,diginity,
GPS can track his location, and his banking,credit card, bio-data all saved in the chip. he would enslaved into some control/censor system. you can not buy or sell without the chip.
what I learned from this post , it is a warning to ask Christians to aware the bio-chip, do not be control by it.
that is it !
I heard a christian who work in computer field, he suggest us not to use Facebook (at least , do not store your personal data in the facebook or something like that)
why ? for the database is centralized . it can easily be controlled by any government later (if that is bad government) . we are in a dangerous period of time.
we really do not know if this is kind of mark of beast,
to me, bio-chip can be used in very evil way, if the leadership is evil,
it is totally against man's free will,
persecution is coming, very clearly,
not only bio-chip thing, how about the gay-marriage,
sb-48 (CA) - gay person try to add filthy thing ,
abomination into textbook, there are so many choice we are going to make, which side we choose? life or death.
not only for us also for our children, grandchildren,
it is days of lot and noah , when we read Bible
Genesis 19, the story of Lot and two angels, I
could not imagine, we are in the same situation ,
if we do not repent and pray , what will come,
do we want our children to live in sodom....
HIGH ALERT 2012 Onwards For You & Your Family
| 2012/5/20 14:23||Profile|
| Re: |
Hey Bearnaster, I think you skip a few details when addressing a complex subject that has more components than you mention. I understand that you would like to have it simplified, as in "I think the mark is more spiritual than literal."
Yes, but. - But, because we know there is more involved, here is the economical aspect of it: Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Buying and selling, and the regulation of it hints at severe economic sanctions. These sanctions will be global. Now everyone that understands this will also understand that there has to be an administrative component involved to implement that.
I appreciate that you know the difference between conspiracy and reality, and fully agree on this, however I want to enchorage you to not skip parts of the evidence of identification without you will not be able to accurately understand reality.
| 2012/5/20 19:01||Profile|
| Re: A-Servant|
Brother I wm purposely trying to keep it simplified because one poster who will remain unnamed gets on my case and accuses me of posting conspiracy and what have you. But I am aware if the complexities of what you are talking about.
But to stick with the scriptures. Much of the discussion has centered around Rev.13:16-17. The discussion of the chip as the possible mark has to be taken in the wider context if Rev.13:11-18. Not just the economic component found in Rev.13:16-17.
For example the antochrist will arise as a counterfeit Jesus found in Rev.13:11. He will be worshipped or cause all to worship the first beast found in Rev.13:12. He will do signs and wonders to decieve the people Rev.13:13-14. He will give breath to make an image talk. Those who do not worship the image are killed. This will be believers in Christ. This is found in Rev.13:15. Then you proceed to the mark in Rev.13:16-17.
The verses preceding the mark verses imply a worship of the beast. Actually two beads. Rev.13:1-10 speak of the beast of the sea and Rev.13:10-18 speak of a beast of the earth. All of this heaken back to the verses at the end if Rev.12 that show Satan making war against the saints of God.
I simply share all the above to say much activity has to take place before the mark is in place. Must notedly the worship of antichrist. Ehich makes me wonder if the mark may not be mire spiritual or religious than economic. My guess would be the mark, whatever it is, symbolizes allegiance to antichrist. Much like those who wore the swastika were devoted to Hitler.
Simply my thoughts.
| 2012/5/20 19:42|
| Re: |
You know when you look at the totalitarian states they have all one thing in common...they hate God they hate the individual. There based on the pride of Man and Satan. When we left Viet Nam in 75 the North Viet Cong promptly moved in and filled the void where we left and massacred 2.8 million Cambodians. Over the 20th century the Communist has murdered roughly 149 million of his own "comrades". If you read up on Marx he was a Christian in his early years and them turned his back on God and literally became a Satanist. Our form of Government a Republic recognized God Given rights that the state could not take them away because they were from God. God said if you obey me you will prosper which we did for a time. Since we got away from God in the US our founders said if you do that even the best Constitution will be ineffective and slavery must ensue. That was the penalty for not being diligent. Not praying for our leaders and not seeking God as we should of. Going to sleep. And the due penalty is a totalitarian state. All the heathen Godless societies of the world for the most part are under a Dictatorship or some oppressive government socialism or communism or a dictatorship. B Franklin told a bystander what type of Government they come up with and he said a Republic if you can keep it. Adams said our Government was only for a Religious people anything less and it would die. If you stay on top whats going on the facts are and not a conspiracy Obama is legislating by executive order and has enabled himself much control if their is an emergency. The Socialists in Congress are on record for saying "never waste a crisis". The facts are there are 60-80 card carrying socialists in congress. The weather underground was infiltrated by the FBI in the late 60s and early 70s and the agent who befriended Bill Ayers and listened to their plans for America and they were talking about interment camps and Ayers said that the people who did not lineup with their philosophy would be killed and he estimated about 25 million would have to be taken out. Obama and Bill Ayers was more then just acquaintances. I say all this because there is a pattern of slow tyranny in America and it has sped up greatly just read the paper. Just reading that health care bill you ask yourself what have we unleashed. The Drones have now been authorized to patrol in US airspace and the presidnet has the new power take out who ever he deems as a terrorist. There now is an Assination czar. There have been figures thrown out where some say 30-50% of congressional staffers are gay. And they write your legislation that your congressman don't read.
But I'm no abandonment preacher. I'm believing for America to regain her calling as a city on a hill. I'm praying for revival because that will be the only thing to save us. We will probably be having revival while there is fighting in the streets. I read some prophet who said that if we force Israel to restrict to 67 borders God will reverse our progress in our race relations back to 1967. And Obama announced to the world that he would like to see Israel back to 67 borders. So since he spoke it and he's the head of this nation your seeing racial tensions and race hatred rising up again. Occupy Wall Street the black panthers the unions this administration coming together to whip up the flames of social unrest. The government is getting ready for race wars this summer. So as a Christian I believe the mark of the beast on your forehead and on your hands carries more weight in the symbolism then just having a chip in you. The forehead represents your mind and your thoughts and your hands represent what you do. So if your thoughts and the things you do do not show you are a true disciple of Christ, a living relationship where you obey him and seek him, you already have the mark. If your not on fire and if you are not in obedience to him you already have the mark. You don't have to wait till they officially put it on you, you already have it by the way you live! Eighty percent of messages for independence during the Revolutionary war was made by The Clergy. They were called the Black Regiment. The motto of The revolutionary was "No King but King Jesus" Israel gave God up as their King and 3000 +years later our Founders said they wanted God Restored Back to them and this new land as their King. Knowing about Americas revival history starting with John Edwards and George Whitfield all our founders grew up under their preaching. The revival fires started cooling in 1760 but the seeds and fires were stirred in our Founders to bring forth a new nation under God. Some lady told me that God told her that America was a Jonah. What that meant to me was Jonah came back from death and hell and was used by God to preach such a earth shattering word that a city of 120 thousand wicked to the core people repented from the top down! From the King down to the animals in the field. Just by his anointed words! So I'm reminding God to not forget what George Whitfield did here and all our founders and the great revivalists that preached in America don't forget God Charles Finney don't throw us away wake us up God! I believe your going to see a turnaround in America, I believe God is going to take his country back. All the major Ivy leage universites were started to preach and honor Jesus Christ. Now they are an exact God hating opposite. I don't believe God is going to stand to lose like that. The thing that was started for good had to be destroyed. I believe God for his own reputation is going to do a great thing in America. As he said not because we deserve It! But he is rousing up a mighty church in America again that is under pressure to get on her knees again.. If you google George Washingtons Vision he was shown the beginning and the end of America. In the vision there were 3 perils to our existance, the first the war of independence, the second the civil war and the third what we are in now in probally starting the erosion in 1948 and blantanty 1962. and the perilous times of 2012+.. Will you survive with your life and your Godly spiritual life intact will be dictated by your relationship with Jesus and his deems about your physical life. So stand up for truth and righteousness in America. And remember your leaders matter. I leave this prayer for you to ponder and those who don't think that church needs to bother with politics in 1932 Hitler was allowed into power, in 1938 he was throwing bible beliving preachers into concentration camps and by 1945 Germany was utterly destroyed to the ground and has suffered shame to this day on what they let happen...no your leaders don't matter/
A PRAYER FOR OUR NATION AND THE PEOPLE
Reverend Samuel Langdon, 1787
"Preserve your government with the utmost attention and solicitude, for it is the remarkable gift of heaven. From year to year be careful in the choice of your representatives and all the higher powers of government.
"Fix your eyes upon men of good understanding and known honesty; men of knowledge, improved by experience; men who fear God and hate covetousness; who love truth and righteousness, and sincerely wish the public welfare.
"Beware of such as are cunning rather than wise; who prefer their own interest to everything; whose judgment is partial or fickle, and whom you would not willingly trust with your own private interests.
"When meetings are called for the choice of your rulers, do not carelessly neglect them or give your votes with indifference ... but act with serious deliberation and judgment, as in a most important matter, and let the faithful of the land serve you.
"Let not men openly irreligious and immoral become your legislators; for how can you expect good laws to be made by men who have no fear of God ... and who boldly trample on the authority of his commands?... If the legislative body is corrupt, you will soon have bad men for counselors, corrupt judges, unqualified justices, and officers in every department who will dishonor their stations...."
"Therefore be always on your guard against parties and the methods [of] unworthy men, and let distinguished merit always determine your vote. And when all places in government are filled with the best men you can find, behave yourselves as good subjects; obey the laws, [be] cheerfully subject to such taxation as the necessities of the public call for. Give tribute to whom tribute is due, custom to whom custom, fear to whom fear, and honor to whom honor [is due] as the gospel commands you.
"Never give countenance to turbulent men, who wish to distinguish themselves and rise to power by forming combinations and exciting insurrections against government. For this can never be the right way to redress real grievances...."
"I call upon you also to support schools in all your towns, that the rising generation may not grow up in ignorance.... It is a debt you owe to your children and that God to whom they belong...."
"I call upon you to preserve the knowledge of God in the land and attend to the revelation written to us from heaven.
"If you neglect or renounce that religion taught and commanded in holy scriptures, think no more of freedom, peace, and happiness...."
"May the general government of these United States , when established appear to be the best which the nations have yet known, and be exalted by uncorrupted religion and morals! And may the everlasting gospel diffuse its Heavenly light and spread Righteousness, Liberty , and Peace through the whole world."
| 2012/5/27 23:23||Profile|
| Re: Re-markable!|
Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.
The mark in the right hand and forehead implies the prostration of bodily and intellectual powers to the beasts domination. In the forehead by way of profession and worship; in the hand with respect to work and service.
Now contrast Gods seal and name in the foreheads of His servants;
Deut 6:4-8 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words which I command thee this day, shall be in thy heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently to thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thy eyes.
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men who have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and lo, a lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him a hundred and forty four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
All are marked by the one or the other.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth firm, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:19
To whom do you belong? Whose slave are you?
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants in obedience, his servants ye are whom ye obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devill: whoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
| 2012/5/28 1:46||Profile|