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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, if you run from error , you will never stop running...and it is hard to run from yourself unless you are perfect. this is obviously a private matter and should not be argued in public. i read the statement of faith and if you pick sentences out of it you are not doing it service for its aim is balanced truth . i would not get out of bed to hear most wof preachers and have dined with ken hagin and heard him many times. i belonged to the same church and ministered with jesse duplantis and know him well. i know of the rediculous excesses in this group. but,hath not God said if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that you will be saved .is it not true that Gods principals work for the saved and the lost also. eat the fish and spit out the bones and love the people and pray for them.jimp

 2012/5/16 23:09Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Could one also rightly say drink the water, spit out the arsenic?

The Lord has always detested a mixture. And for good reason.

 2012/5/17 0:27Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,some of you have the same feelings toward this as the jews had to the horrible samaritans. Jesus made a missionary out of one and used the other to put down those who judge without seeing the hearts of those judged.the only thing worse than a semaritan was a tax collector and oh Jesusdined and felowshipped with one.we need to be more graceous to one another.the church is made up of evil men and women who for the grace of God would be avoided at all cost.jimp

 2012/5/17 3:34Profile
PhoenixDBR
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 11


 Re:

You are ignoring the multople times he denounces the extremes, evem with wxample situations!

I have known this man for 5+ years and have never walked away from a sermon thinking I have a higher authority than God.

The problem here is once you boldly talk about what we have access to as children of the Father you are affiliated with that movement.

Did or did not Christ say "I go so thay you can do greater things than these"? Please read Matt 12:25-32 & Mark 9:38-41.

Many find safety in ignoring the power of the Holy Spirit. Because of fruity flakes they wish not to associate themswlves with they stay on the other side.

You have to know the fruit of this mans ministru much like our church.

One could easily look at all of Wilkersons false propheciea that never came true and write him off and never give credit to all those saved jnder his ministry.

You don't know this man. I don't see anything quoted here that says we are above God but rather we can do so much more than sit in a pew every sunday.

 2012/5/17 8:38Profile
PhoenixDBR
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 11


 Re:

And if you follow the logic of the Lord detesting any mix that isnt perfect not a single church or its members would qualify. He mentions the movement and names but never says "and I agree with everything they have said". What I see here is a ton of scripture with an encouragement that the church of Acts was not only for its time period. That Christ didnt die to merely get us in heaven but as sons and daughters we can glorify the Lord in praying for the sick and believing they can be healed.

The Corinthian church was worth correcting...it wasnt a church everyone should flee from.

 2012/5/17 9:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The problem here is once you boldly talk about what we have access to as children of the Father you are affiliated with that movement.



The problem here is that when you refer to Hagen and Copeland as men of God, you ARE that movement.

You defend the grievous error with the same ferocity that any cult member would do, but the reality is that your defense does not make this group any more viable as a 'church' than that of the cults.

Those seeking MORE than everlasting life give it up in exchange for that which they are seeking.

OJ

 2012/5/17 9:49
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

I'm not against praying for healing or anything like that. I'm against obvious heretics and those who prostitute the gospel for financial gain as being cited as models of faith.

I've never been to your church, and have no dog in this fight, and I know that many times people can site teachers that they don't know about. But citing the Copelands as an example of faith? By the Hebrew and Greek definition they probably couldn't even spell the word, as what they practice and teach is certainly not faith as the Word of God defines it.

I too would be nervous about going anywhere that cited them as people of "faith", or used them for any sort of role models for anything other than heretics and deceivers of the last days.

Most of the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists have a mixture that's mostly edible. Even the Muslims have some true stuff in their religion. It's what's mixed with that will kill a person.

Just hypothetically, should one read the Quran, The Pearl of Great Price, The New World Translation of the Bible and other such books, in order to get a fuller picture of God by just "eating the meat and spitting out the bones?" If I suggested that to a new convert (or any believer for that matter) most on this site would probably have me tarred and feathered. :p I'd at least be called a deceiver, and with good cause. I'm surprised that we would so readily advise such an approach though when giving ear to those who pervert the Gospel just because they decide to fly the pentacostal, evangelical, or charismatic banner over their ministry.

And what happened when the Churches in the New Testament got mixed doctrine? They were quickly rebuked and corrected by Paul. Their mixture was NOT ONCE defended nor was it tolerated. We're not against individuals or congregations here. We're against poisonous teachings, that stray from what the apostles handed down to us.

 2012/5/17 9:51Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Need Doctrinal help ASAP


Brother Soulrider,

I understand your dilemma because I still struggle with a correct balance on “word” doctrine; I blame the nay and fear-sayers for it!! LOL The pessimists who always “warn” you of all the bad things (but never really tell you what the bad things are) and I’m not just talking about sermonindex fear-sayers, I’m talking about the ones all around us day in and day out. And I’m personally getting tired of the ones around me. My desire is to believe the truth of the Scriptures not someone else's version of it.

I'm going to be honest, I like to read but I’ve never read anything Kenneth Haggin has written because of these same people!! LOL Never mind about my idiosyncrasies, I’m going to get a book on my kindle to read it for myself.

Anyway, I did run across a book from 1932 by John A. Macmillan who was a Philippine missionary and he wrote “The Authority of the Believer.” This is an excellent book!!! This is a book by a man who had to deal with demons and the authority God gave him (long before all the ‘word people’ got hold of the idea)... I only mention this because I think it would really help you to read this particular book and see what he learned from God in 1932 before all this craziness started. (If you have a Kindle, amazon has it for .99 cents.)

Table of Contents
Chapter 1 – The Authority Defined
Chapter 2 – The Source of Authority
Chapter 3 – The Rebel Holders of this Authority
Chapter 4 – The Divine Purpose of the Age
Chapter 5 – The Extent of this Authority
Chapter 6 – The Failure of the Church
Chapter 7 – The Qualifications for Authority
Chapter 8 – Fear
Chapter 9 – The Practical Exercise of Authority
Chapter 10 – The Final Outcome of Authority


We cannot argue the truth of the Scriptures and the one that Phoenix stated, “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Brother, before you dig your heels in on this issue perhaps you should fast and pray and seek the wisdom of Christ on this matter, not what I am telling you, not what Phoenix is telling you and certainly not what you are telling yourself and what the nay and fear-sayers are telling you but Christ Alone.

God bless you, brother,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/5/17 10:27Profile
PhoenixDBR
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 11


 Re:

You still have yet to meet the man who said all of this. I refuse to believe our church can be compared to mormonism and the like by the fruit of teansformed lives.

Joe himself admitted the presence of the Holy Spirit when attending our chuech before reading this document.

If said document said what it said without noting the movement youd declare it hidden and even worse.

Ill say it again: our church is the type that let Joe who came all of 2 weeks take a "Word of Faith" he felt drom the Spirit of God which was for our whole church to take a moment to pray and focus on lost relatives.

This would never happen at nwarly every church in our area...who are afraid to vocalize what they feel thw Spirit is saying lest they be compared to the Word of Faith movement.

You have yet to step foot in our church or know the grwat solid ministry of said author. He had a sermon series of is saints being bought at a price. That we are not our own but His. So many teachingas on the authority of God. Never elevating us over Him.

Once again. The same could be said about Wilkerson. He "hears the Spirit" aay things that never came to pass. Stop writing off who you don't know. This is very unfair.

 2012/5/17 11:00Profile
PhoenixDBR
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 11


 Re:

It really is a shame. Joe has known me for 7 years and Im sure he could admit Ive never sounded like I felt I had authority over christ.

 2012/5/17 11:03Profile





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