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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1572
Scotland, UK

 Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

I am soundly saved, baptised in the Spirit, but I have found that there is something in me that is crooked and unacceptable to God.

I would like to have a discussion around these topics.

• The old man who is corrupted. The nature we inherited from Adam that remains in the Christian after being “saved”.

• The New Man we inherited from Christ, which God created in righteousness and true holiness.

• What did the Apostle Paul mean when he wrote “That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” Col 1:28.

With that said I am looking for an open honest discussion which is edifying…

Colin Murray

 2012/4/19 8:31Profile

 Re: Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

We only can have one nature. We are now a totally new creation.
Our old nature is crucified, dead and buried!!!
It is impossible to have two natures!

We still live in a corrupted body but our body is not our nature.

Our mind needs renewing but our mind is not our nature.

We have a new heart and Christ Himself living within us.

 2012/4/19 8:42

Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


Amen tuc.

We either have the nature of God or the nature of Satan. We have no independent nature apart from from one of them.

We do not have the nature of God and Satan at the same time. And what is human nature if not the nature of Satan? The Satanic flesh nature that people call human nature is not of God and you are right, it was crucified.

To say we have a "human nature" is to say that we have an independent self apart from either God or Satan.

Were we 50% regenerated or 100% regenerated?

Now, we can still sin, but we don't have to. The power of sin has been broken and the spirit of disobedience (Satan) has been replaced by the Spirit of God.

We have a heart now to abide in God and no longer in Satan and thus we derive our life, nature and character from God.

We have the imprints and patterns and memory of sin in this flesh and that is why we must renew our mind and choose life each minute of each day and not death.

The choice is still ours but God has given us a new heart and grace and His Spirit so that we might overcome the world, the flesh and the Devil and say with Jesus, "The Evil One has nothing in me".


 2012/4/19 9:15Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re: Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

Hello Colin,

Praise God for your testimony, "I am soundly saved, baptised in the Spirit, but I have found that there is something in me that is crooked and unacceptable to God."

I strongly recommend you visit old joe's thread and read his posts. On there you will see many posts that refute the idea that a Saint can be vile but the Apostle Paul, himself, claims he is vile. I know I am completely unworthy of my salvation and thank Jesus Christ my Lord for His Spirit living in me. I thank Him for the work He does/will do in and through me, for in me there is no good work. If I do something good it is to His credit. Please know this does not throw me off from doing what He allows me to do with complete joy.

Below is the link to that lengthy thread. Beware of anyone telling you other than what Paul teaches, or of anyone twisting the intent of his words.

You ask: • What did the Apostle Paul mean when he wrote “That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” Col 1:28. I believe he answers that in v.27 "this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: "

Kindest regards,
white stone


 2012/4/19 9:19Profile

 Re: Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

Colin wrote :

"The nature we inherited from Adam that remains in the Christian after being “saved”."

Knowing this, that our old man is cricified with Him, that the body of sin might be DESTROYED that henceforth we should not serve sin Rom 6:6

Paul`s ministry was “That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” Col 1:28 that is to say, to bring forth the reality of Rom 6:6 into each believers life.

Once that has occured, that which is `crooked and unacceptable` becomes clean and holy.

 2012/4/19 10:05

 Re: Collin

Brother forgive me for being practical. But our walk with Christ is practical. Bottom line. We are born again with a new nature. But we have to grow. We grow by prayer and the word. A believer who is continually in prayer and the word will gave victory over sin.

Sorry bro. Me no theologian. But I was taught by some solid Navigators who instilled in ne the value of prayer and the word.


 2012/4/19 10:12

Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 555


Man is a tri-part being. Body, Soul & Spirit. Unsaved persons have spirits which are dead to God. Once you are saved your spirit becomes alive to God by becoming one with God's Spirit. You spirit man is sinless and perfect, otherwise you could not have fellowship with God. Your body on the other hand is anything but perfect or sinless. Paul said "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing." In the book of Romans Paul talks about the conflict in the believer between the spirit and the flesh. If you live after the flesh you will die but if you live by the spirit you will experience life and peace. Any honest Christian will tell you that this tension is real. Between the flesh and the spirit is the soul. The soul consists of man's mind which includes the heart (affections and emotions) and the will. To grow and mature as a Christian you must learn to choose by an act of your will to lean and rely on your spirit and distrust and turn away from the flesh.

The point I am making is that I like to think of my spirit man as the "true" me and the flesh as the "false" or "dead" me. When we leave our bodies (either at death or when Jesus returns) we will receive glorified bodies and our struggle against the flesh will be over. So when I say that my spirit is the "true" me I am not pretending it to be so, it is what will survive and exist forever. Not my old stinking flesh.

However, until we get our glorified new bodies we will be regularly solicited by our flesh to do its bidding. I have learned that instead of being constantly preoccupied or obsessed with sin, when I focus on Jesus and my relationship to Him I can overcome the flesh and sin by the power of His Spirit. You see, we only behave according to how we see ourselves to be, our identity. Most people have it just backwards, they base their identity on their behavior. So if they have a problem with overeating they see themselves as a glutton. Once you see yourself as a particular type of sinner, you will always have a problem with that sin. But if you will take your eyes off the sin problem and look to Jesus with eyes of faith and believe and confess that you are a new creature in Christ created for good works and then rely on that new life in Christ to live out through you, you will experience victory. The key is abiding in the True Vine.

 2012/4/19 10:57Profile

Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


So, if Christ came to make men righteous, how does one experience righteousness as a work of the Spirit? Is this supposed to be an experiential reality in our lives or not?

Is there such a thing as the transformation of righteousness in a believer?

I believe there is because without righteousness the glory of God will not abide among men. It is not enough to be "declared righteous" and to say we are "justified", there must be real fruit. There must be some manifestation of the work of righteousness by the Spirit in a person. Otherwise, there is no reality of Christ in our lives and we just continue down the "happy" road of deception.

As the Church today is praying for revival the words of the prophet still speak with clear direction.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God

Isa 40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

True believing leads to the inworking (sanctification) and the outworking of our faith (true works authored by the Holy Spirit).

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:14

Who are the sons of God?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:14


 2012/4/19 11:06Profile

 Re: Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

The absolute saddest part is that The church does not know that when Jesus emptied Himself and walked this earth as man - He was what He has made us.
Do you understand what that means?
That we have ALL that Jesus had while here, within us now.

Do you understand how not coming to that understanding has wrecked our purpose or better said, HIS PURPOSE for 'us' in this world?

It should put us into tears and it does. WAKE UP CHURCH!

 2012/4/19 11:18

 Re: the Image of Christ on earth -

Every Truth that He's spoken, Satan has come up with a counterfeit for.

The Hyper-faith, Name-it-and-Claim-it folks did just that with the Scriptures - as did those that would prevent us from Knowing "who we are IN Christ Jesus".

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Some attribute these verses to the Apostles Only.

Mar 16:17,18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The part that the Hyper-faith people left out was that we're to "empty ourselves of ourselves" and have the Mind of Christ Who said, "the words that I speak and the works that I do are not mine but The Father's".
He emptied Himself and became totally dependent, through The Holy Spirit, on The Father.
We are to do likewise - empty ourselves of ourselves - Love The LORD our GOD with all of our heart, mind, soul and strength and others as ourselves , AS HE DID.
Then and only then will we be what He says we are to be in this world.
We're to Know His Voice - but we need to constantly be asking Him His Will.
He will tell us if someone is to healed, or if our prayers for rain will be answered, etc. Once He speaks, and we hear Him and not our own wishful-self-glorifying answer - He will act upon what HE has spoken. Then, the works that He did, we will do also --- and as He is in the world, so will we be ... IF we let this mind be in us that was in Him - Loving GOD and His Word with ALL of our hearts, mind, soul and strength and others more than ourselves - willing to lay down our lives for others - emptied of self, so that no flesh can glory in His Presence - then ALL of the verses posted here will be true of us.

This is what is lacking and only child-like, non-self-seeking, willing to pay the price minds can grasp it and pray to GOD that His Church does grasp His Purpose for us Soon.

Joh 1:16 And of His fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Eph 1:23 Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge,
that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself,
even as He is pure.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment:
because as He is, so are we in this world.

Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world.

 2012/4/19 12:31

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