| Re: |
passerby... thats the God's Word version? I had to look it up. I have never heard of it.
I'm sorry brother, but I have to dismiss it. This is in the same vein as the Message Bible, which is by far the most horrific version made other than the JW Bible.
Not trying to be mean. Just saying that if you're going to try to prove my thinking to be in error you gotta use a more credible version. I'll settle for the ESV if you dont like the KJV.
| 2012/4/12 13:21|
| Re: |
1Co 9:24-27 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: but I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Rom 8:13,14 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Gal 5:24,25 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth ...
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
| 2012/4/12 13:26|
| Re: |
PS: I agree with every word you just pasted! And I see the Doctrines of Grace all over every word.
| 2012/4/12 13:26|
| Re: |
Krispy: Do you think that it is possible for a person who has come to Christ to walk away from Him?
Previously, I used the example of my older sister. There is no doubt that my older sister had a relationship with the Lord. We knew her better than anyone and her faith was very sincere.
In the past few years, she has left her husband, married another man and is living in sin (she is doing things that she knows is wrong) and doesn't want to "talk about it."
What do you think the end result is for a person like my sister?
Like Frank said, I think that there is a difference between Jesus "losing" someone or someone "walking away" from Christ because of the many temptations of this world.
Part of the Gospel is to turn to Christ...choosing Him. It is not a "one time decision." Like most of us, we must buffet our bodies into submission because the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life are always at the door.
So, do you think that it is possible that someone can put their hand to the plow and then turn back? Is it possible for someone to not continue in the faith in Christ that they once embraced?
| 2012/4/12 13:27||Profile|
| Re: |
Thank you for the reminder, I am going to look into this matter.
With those verses that I quoted, was the original context 'seriously' misrepresented or compromised with that version.
Well, I don't really want to divert from the topic, I just want a short feedback for the benefit of the readers of this thread.
| 2012/4/12 13:37||Profile|
| Re: |
Exactly! People are saying that WE must endure to the end, and that WE must live in Christ, and that WE must walk in righteousness...
And all of that is true! But who enables you to do that? YOU? You're own strength? If you could do that you would not need a Savior... nor the Holy Spirit.
That is not in dispute. We are talking about someone walking away from Christ.
You can not do any of that by yourself, yet the way people are wording this it sounds as if YOU are going to do that on your own. You could never do it before Christ, and you can not do it now... UNLESS He enables you.
Again, no one is disputing that it is by His life in us that we are saved.
What we are talking about is a tiny little ingredient called, "Yielding" and "Choosing".
Yielding and submitting to God and choosing to follow Him everyday and not walk away.
He gives us grace, but we can fall from grace.
Are we automatons? Do we not play a part in this 2 sided relationship?
God enables you. If you persevere to the end it's only because God enabled and strenghened you to do it.
Ahhh, you are saying IF. IF, IF, IF! There are lots of those little words in the NT.
So there it is... God saves, and God enables. Not you.
Yes, God saves, God enables, but God does not submit or yield on our behalf. Our work is to yield, follow, choose, submit.
He does not fill our temple with Him and then take over. It is a cooperative effort as we choose to bring our wills into harmony with His by yielding our members (spirit, soul, mind and body) to righteousness.
And WHAT IF we harden our heart or fall into unbelief and don't yield, submit, follow or choose Him.
WHAT IF we don't persevere?
| 2012/4/12 13:45||Profile|
| Re: Can we lose our salvation? Let's ask the "Prince of Preachers"|
I thought since the thread started with the "prince of preachers" i thought id insert another quote from him that blessed me. He speaks on another topic but it is the "contradictory" part i think Spurgeon understood.
That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring. C.H Spurgeon
And so I believe it is with this topic also
| 2012/4/12 13:50||Profile|
| Re: |
So some are "predestined" to Hell?
| 2012/4/12 13:58|
| Re: It is possible|
I have always understood the walk with Christ to be a relationship. In any relationship one can turn and walk away. So yes, one can walk away from Christ . But do they lose their salvation? Best leave that to God. Only he knows the heart of men.
I will say that one who walks away from the sweet fellowhip of Jesus will live a miserable life here on earth. I have seen believers walk away from Christ. The joy they once had is gone and they are miserable. In a sense they are making their own bell on earth.
Just my 2 cents as Lysa would say.
Bearnaster standing down.
| 2012/4/12 14:03|
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Following on from what hmmhmm quoted by Spurgeon, I have been thinking about this aspect concerning the debate about perserverence of the saints.
There are I believe two sides to view this subjct. From God's view (He is omniscient) He see eeach one with either eternal life or destined eternal death from before we were born. But from our side we cannot possibly know, so we are called to persevere to the end. That is why we are called not to preach God's omniscient knowledge that he has not revealed to us, but man's responsibility to have faith and continue to trust the Lord.
This applies to the 'perserverence of the saints' view of eternal security, but not the 'OSAS no matter what you do after that' view. I think we have to aknowledge these are two quite different positions and to be fair to Krispy he is not promoting the later position.
| 2012/4/12 14:17||Profile|