| Poster | Thread | Spitfire
Member
Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633
| | Re: | | Quote:
Sexual sins are a direct violation of the 10 commandments... a moral law. Smoking does not.
I've meditated on this statement all evening, and I have decided that I totally disagree. Smoking is idolatry and in direct violation of the first commandment, Thou shall have no other gods before me. Someone said that smoking isn't hurting anyone but themselves. I disagree with that also. It teaches others that compromise is acceptable.
Why do I believe that smoking is idolatry? Because every god other than our God is a taskmaster whose sole motivation is for it's own purpose of which it forces it's servants through brute force, to obey. It does not control through love, but rather it's demand for worship is punishment. It's subjects are harshly treated slaves and their reward is death.
Romans 6:16 says, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yeild yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"
Romans 6:17-18, "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became [i]servants of righteousness[/i].
I am, at this point, only trying to get people to see that smoking is a serious sin. It isn't just a nasty habit. It's a violation of the first commandment. I know that everyone's argument is, "Well, what about your sins of the heart?" That is a sin of the heart of the worst kind.
To me, all the bucking and rebuttal is the evidence in and of itself. This is huge to God. That's my opinion, and I believe it's how God sees it, too. Sincerely, Dian.
P.S. That's all I have to say about that. :-D |
|  2005/2/1 3:16 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
I've meditated on this statement all evening, and I have decided that I totally disagree. Smoking is idolatry and in direct violation of the first commandment, Thou shall have no other gods before me. Someone said that smoking isn't hurting anyone but themselves. I disagree with that also. It teaches others that compromise is acceptable.
Good points. I dont agree 100% ... more like 85%. ;-) |
| | 2005/2/1 8:51 | | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: Death to the flesh | | Quote:
I have spent my christian life "flip-flopping" between statements like, "Oh it's okay, just wait until the Holy Spirit convicts you", and "Don't you know that it's getting between you and God". My first statment has lead many into further bondage to this filthy habit, while to second has caused many to look down on smokers, themselves included many times. The issue raised here (by myself included) has seemed to have been "Forget about smoking, what about 'XYZ', why do we ignore that." While that is true, that doesn't take away the fact that smoking is a dirty habit. It is a violation of logic and nature. In the twentieth century, we say "ohh, poor little smokers", while Finney openly condemned it (even if only on the issue of poor stewardship of God's funds).
Thanks Aaron,
And
Thanks Dian, still don't see it the same way [i]personally[/i] as 'idolatry' and without trying to squirm out from underneath that what I mean is that it still seems [i]sideways[/i], but that is likely just some malfunction of the brain cells.
Here is what I am getting at and will use Aaron's words here;
" It is a violation of logic and nature. "
Or in layman's terms.... Stupidity!
How can anyone in their right mind defend something so unnatural that you have to 'learn' how to force the natural rejection of your body to the invasion of something so foreign to it?
At the start it's like trying to eat while you are throwing up. Crass, but true. So there is no defending it, don't think I would recommend bashing ones head against a wall repeatedly either.
I guess what I want to say is that if it were possible maybe it is worse than idolatry in the sense that if the Lord is requiring it from me and I say, 'no'... and that is where everything else comes into play. It is not and 'either/or' construct when we bring in 'other' "what about this and what about that's". As Aaron stated it is all SIN! Worth repeating;
Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Not interested in a bob and weave around the issue. It is plain enough and not sure it is necessary to judge nor compromise, nor coddle the 'poor little smokers' (I [b]do[/b] like that brother!) As it relates to the first fruits of this post and the question asked it seems plain enough to heed the Lords words [b]first[/b];
Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your [b]inward[/b] part is full of ravening and wickedness.
Mat 23:26 You blind Pharisee! [b]First clean the inside[/b] of the cup, so that its [b]outside may also be clean[/b].
In all things shouldn't we apply the right criteria? Guess that's all I am saying in regards to idolatry and how it applies here.
So this thread has taken on two primary faces, one in regards to what might be expected of those who's hearts need a thorough thrashing, is that not what really happens when we get exposed to [b]The Light?[/b] Recall it made one man blind for a number of days.... Cleaning a cup without any scrubbing seems to be what we can often give out as the 'Gospel' anymore, so to wipe off the coffee stains first (ie. 'the smokers'/unbelievers/ babes, etc.) and then set them back on a shelf until someone comes along latter only to find the inside is growing mold....
The other angle is to those like yours truly, the site jester here, who know better.
I cannot give you one good reason for continuing to do this.
And I am also painfully aware that and also a bit perturbed about the way this gets bandied about as well... That we can often say it hurts 'our' testimony or 'my' testimony. It's not 'my' testimony, it's [i][b]His[/b][/i] testimony.
If I could get that through my thick skull into my heart...
Somebody nail me to the cross.
Please.
_________________
Mike Balog
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| | 2005/2/1 10:21 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Somebody nail me to the cross. Please
Sorry can't help, but then neither can anyone else...
[i]...but if [u]ye[/u] through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13b KJV)[/i]
It's another one of those very private verses. Only room for two people in it! :-D
_________________
Ron Bailey
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| | 2005/2/1 11:51 | Profile | lastblast
Member
Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan
| | Re: | | Quote:
To me, all the bucking and rebuttal is the evidence in and of itself. This is huge to God. That's my opinion, and I believe it's how God sees it, too.
Yes, you may be entirely right Dian. I think most of us agree that smoking is sin---KNOWINGLY allowing poisons/toxins into your body----the end result being some form of harm to your body---whether lungs, esophagus or mouth/tongue. Nicotine and all the tars in smoking products are not healthy----period.
However, with all "sin" issues, there is differing approaches/applications. All this topic is doing for me, is revealing the level of hypocrisy in me and in others. Some sins, we excuse away---thinking we will discuss the evils, yet let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit. Concerning other sins (usually our "pet" issues) we come out strong against those. Myself, I am nothing but a mass of hypocrisy. I personally wish I could be consistant in my application (not view, because I do view sin as sin). We are called to depart from sin. This is a fact. The hard part of walking with Christ is----to call sin what it is and to season it with Grace and mercy...........Just my thoughts. Blessings in Him,Cindy
_________________
Cindy
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| | 2005/2/1 14:44 | Profile | Spitfire
Member
Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633
| | Re: | | Quote:
Somebody nail me to the cross.
Dear Mike. About maybe 20 years ago, a man came to the church I attended and he preached a message that I have never forgotten entitled, Truth Is Never On Sale. The jist of the message was this: God doesn't have a bargain basement. You will never get anything from God at a discount. It's going to cost you the same price everyone else pays. That's top dollar. That's your life.
I tell you, I spent years trying to "deal" with God. I had a dream, also about 20 years ago. I dreamed that I had been condemned to die. Both my pastor and my husband confirmed it. I was supposed to get in this shower stall which had a button installed on the wall. I was supposed to get myself soaking wet and then touch my finger to the button and it was supposed to electrocute me. Finally, I got in the shower. I was crying and wailing. I got wet and touched the button, and all it did was shock the ^&*% out of me. I went to my pastor and told him what happened. He said, "well, just get back in there and keep doing it till you're dead." That was the end of the dream.
Moral, as I see it: You can't nail yourself to the cross, you can only submit yourself to God. If you keep trying to do it, all you will do is make yourself miserable and you still won't accomplish the task.
Just a few days ago, God spoke to my heart and said, "Your first marriage ended because you wouldn't follow me to the cemetary. If this one ends, it will be because you did."
That's all I need to know. Love you. Dian. |
| | 2005/2/1 15:23 | Profile | moreofHim
Member
Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632
| | Re: dream | | Dian, I am so glad you told us about this dream! I had a dream last year that three tidal waves came crashing down on me, one at a time. I looked up and behind me to see this big wave and knew I was to hold my breath and swim for the top. I did this each time, yet the third time, I couldn't make it back up to the top. I was under the water just thinking, "is this what it's like to be dead?"
I have been fearful because I didn't know if this meant death to self or really my death. If it is really the death of "self" then I see that after two times of trying to swim up to the top on my own (in my own strength) that the third time I don't make it. I am thinking that these tidal waves are trials- which I am very familiar with by now. I don't know what number i'm on now, but i think I still have the third to go. Oh, help me Lord!
In Him, Chanin
_________________
Chanin
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| | 2005/2/1 16:52 | Profile | PreachParsly
Member
Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas
| | Re: | | Quote:
How many overweight pastors do you know? I dont see them getting expelled.
Surely you dont think everyone that is "overweight" is a glutton do you?
_________________
Josh Parsley
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| | 2005/2/1 17:24 | Profile | TonyS
Member
Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
Surely you dont think everyone that is "overweight" is a glutton do you?
Josh,
And in the same fashion, not everyone who has an unhealthy diet is overweight.
I brought up this angle, our diet in an earlier post, and it was largely ignored. Maybe it would better fit another thread? But my purpose was/is that we might be as consistent and balanced as is possible with all that we label as SIN.
According to the reasons given, that smoking is a sin because it is unhealthy, then I suggest we be consistent and apply this reasoning to other areas as well, such as diet.
And if we are to argue that smoking is a bad testimony, would it be permissable for a saint to sneak out to the woods, to partake in private, so as not to be seen of other's?
Have I made any sense whatsoever?
And no, I do not use tobacco.
God Bless,
tony
_________________
Tony Sexton
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| | 2005/2/1 17:50 | Profile | moreofHim
Member
Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632
| | Re: appetites | | I'm not going to get into this too much because I could go really deep. I have had problems with food and my weight- even though I was a personal fitness trainer. Actually this is why I became one so i would control my body better. This is not the answer either. You can't substitute exercise for not eating in moderation.
Anyway, we have fleshly appetites- whether it be food, sex, drinking, etc... If we do not have these appetites under control- or under Holy Ghost control- then they are sin.
Gluttony is most certainly a sin. It is mentioned quite a few times in the bible. If you have ever had a problem with your weight you will know that it can be an addiction and a source of bondage.
Even if we are not in bondage to food, we are to show temperance in this area. I want to show others that Christ has control of my appetites, not me. And yes, it is hard. I know many, many people who are miserable because they can't get a handle on their food intake. They know they don't need any more- yet eat it anyway. They know it is not healthy for their bodies ( a gift from the Lord) yet cannot help themselves.
I am at a normal weight- yet I stilll struggle with being obedient in this area. I want it for comfort and to make me forget my pain or my boredom or whatever- instead of taking it to God right away.
Watchman Nee had an excellent writing on it. I can't rememeber what it was under, but it was about christians being able to have their bodies under submission. That things like sleep and food and comfort, should not rule us, but us them. That they are ok and healthy, but we have to be able to go without them too.
Only those who are overweight know in their hearts if they have a problem with controling their eating habits. Whatever we eat or drink, or whatever we do- do all the glory of God.
In Him, Chanin
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Chanin
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| | 2005/2/1 18:34 | Profile |
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