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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida


Brother Frank,

You said, "I think the problem with Joe's position is, for example, when I admitted to him privately that I am indeed vile in comparison to God, that, on the other hand I am redeemed, washed clean and made righteous bu the blood of the Lamb and a child of the most high who calls His Father abba, he would not acknowledge my acknowledgment."

How can it be a problem with Joe's position? You say that you are "vile in comparison to God." But, by omission, not so vile in comparison with other Saints and or Sinners? No wonder you have a problem with Joe's position. You see his position as below yours. That is a shame, too. Hopefully it is not a permanent viewpoint and you will realize how you are coming across. There are none of us above Joe's position and I find it a most comfortable one because it is in Jesus.

white stone


 2012/3/6 17:44Profile


I think the problem with Joe's position is, for example, when I admitted to him privately that I am indeed vile in comparison to God

Frank, actually you said no such thing, and have continued to deny it until this point. The most you have ever claimed is that you 'were' vile, never that you 'are' vile. This is just as the Pharisee (the new Frank) thanking God that you are not like this here publican (the old Frank). Who went down justified?

BTW as the quotes have shown, this is not just Joe's position, it is Spurgeon's, Wesley's, Watson's Edwards, Ironsides etc. THIS is what the gospel produces in a man!


 2012/3/6 17:59


You say that you are "vile in comparison to God." But, by omission, not so vile in comparison with other Saints and or Sinners?

And THAT is the point!!

Paul saw himself as "CHIEF of Sinners", and that he is because his sin AFTER salvation was against the most grace shown to ANY man!!! Sin against grace is more heinous than sin against law, but the most heinous sin is that which is against the most grace!!


 2012/3/6 18:10

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1262


You say that you are "vile in comparison to God." But, by omission, not so vile in comparison with other Saints and or Sinners? No wonder you have a problem with Joe's position. You see his position as below yours.

How did you get this from Frank's post! that is not what he is saying.

Many are misunderstanding. The title of this thread "the vileness of the saint", the saint is not vile but is sanctified.

I am vile within myself but in Christ I am a new creature, I am a new man and the new man is not vile.

 2012/3/6 18:15Profile


Hi rbanks, I think you will find that words do not carry much meaning in this discussion with Joe I am afraid. Anything more I would add to this discussion would be mere sophistry. One has to know when ears are closed and hearts are hard as the rocks in the pharisees hands. I told Joe and made it clear to him, and again repeated in the previous post that in comparison to God,all men, all creatures are vile, whether saved or unsaved.

Yet, and this is the part that Joe can hardly stand, I am not ashamed of the fact that my Jesus died for me because He loved me with an everlasting love. My wonderful Father in Heaven sent Jesus because He loved the world so much. I rejoice in my salvation. I could not even get Joe to give me his testimony, and he stated that only one person on this site was a Christian, and that's the man who invited him here. Even the founder of this site falls foul of Joe's eye, Joe saying that he was as bad as me. There is just no fathoming this, apart from, and I regret to say this, the accuser of the brethren. I shall bow out of this discussion as I try and not stay involved in fruitless conversations. I will let others judge my last post and see if they come to the same conclusions as white_stone and Joe. God bless the all the saints who rejoice and are glad in thier salvation and who rejoice in the fact that they are adopted sons and daughters of the most High God and are priests in a royal priesthood............... brother Frank

 2012/3/6 20:34

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


Old Joe, I am able to accomplish that Grace in Christ by Faith and the renewing of my mind by the Holy Spirit teacher of the Christ that has been birthed into my spirit, which is satan out and Christ in, the new creature Paul is speaking of. My Spirit is perfect before Our Father, because it is the Spirit of His dear Son that now lives in me. The old man mind is still with me, but it is by revelation being renewed to the mind of Christ that taking place in my mind will and emotions, which is my soulish part. This is separate but connected to the Spirit of Christ that now lives in me, which overwhelms and takes place by His Spirit that is now in me, being taught this truth by the Holy Spirit Teacher sent by the Father at the request of the Son and His Prayer to Send Him, not to be just with us but to be in us forever. This is where the dividing asunder takes place; Hebrews 4:12-16 For the word ( Logos)of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

These Logos Words are not just the written word but the Living Word of God, from Jesus Himself taught by revelation of the Holy Spirit Teacher. Peter says we are born again into, the Incorruptable Seed of the Father rebirthed into us, making us born from above, perfect in Spirit, being perfected in Soul and will be perfect in the resurrection body like Jesus Christ.

Old Joe; Thank you so much for this truth, it is the only way it can work in my understanding with my mind and by His Spirit that lives in me taught by every word given to Him; the Holy Spirit who is my teacher.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. He has already received us unto Himself, that is why we are seated in the Heavenlies in Him.

This is our Teacher; John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus speaks, the Holy Spirit brings truth to our minds, (soul).

What does He say? John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Assurance of this truth; John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 14,15,16,17 show plainly what the Holy Spirit is in the believer for, to teach us Christ. This is where Christ the Chruch the Body of Christ makes its most serious mistake, making the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit the same Person. They are not and plainly divided in their work in the believer, but also One God with the Father who makes His abode with us also.

Thanks again for truth of how the believer is to have faith in what the Word plainly speaks to.

In Christ: Phillip


 2012/3/6 20:45Profile

 Re: The vileness of the saint

Now that those who reject this have had their say, back to the original intent of offering comfort to those who behold this great truth.

A few gems from John Owen on the matter.

"Now, of all things in our condition, there is nothing so suited unto this end and purpose as that which lies before us; namely, the vile remainders of enmity against God which are yet in our hearts and natures. And it is no small evidence of a gracious soul when it is willing to search itself in this matter, and to be helped therein from a word of truth; when it is willing that the word should dive into the secret parts of the heart, and rip open whatever of evil and corruption lies therein."

"In walking with God. His delight is with the humble and contrite ones, those that tremble at his word, the mourners in Zion; and such are we only when we have a due sense of our own vile condition."

"The man that understands the evil of his own heart, how vile it is, is the only useful, fruitful, and solid believing and obedient person. Others are fit only to delude themselves, to disquiet families, churches, and all relations whatever."


 2012/3/11 19:07


Jer 17:9,10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Psa 139:23,24 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

GOD Bless!

 2012/3/11 20:14



Psa 139:23,24 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me

He hasn't done it yet, but I pray that that the Lord does this for you ma'am and soon, when He does you will finally be silenced. Until then you will just keep blathering on...


 2012/3/11 20:44

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1089


My friend Joe,

I was thinking on some things as I have been keeping up with your post.

Would calling something GOOD,( comparing it to the way Jesus is saying in this word ,...and thinking on the word vile ......?

I was thinking of when ,in Mk.10:17,..where this man ran and knelt down at Jesus feet, and called Jesus "Good Master"..Jesus said unto him,why
callest Me good ? there is none good but One,that is God.

And in Rom.7:18, says, "For I know that in me (that is,in my flesh),
dwelleth NO GOOD THING;....
but to go on to chp.8:5,.."For they that are after the flesh,do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit,the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded,is death,but to be Spiritually minded is LIFE and PEACE.
(But how many of us are "yet carnally minded "?)
This is most serious !
Wouldn't we have to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind ,strength,
To be truly Spiritually minded ?
( to love Him,is to love His Word, because He is the Word.)

As for the word "vile", ..I see it used in (2) places in the new Testament,...
it is getting late, and I really need to continue maybe later..forgive me.


 2012/3/11 23:54Profile

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