Poster | Thread | Elibeth Member
Joined: 2011/8/14 Posts: 1148
| | 2012/3/1 22:01 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
Krispy you make statements and do little to actually support them.
I have made almost 8,000 posts on this forum... thats an unfounded statement for you to make about me. I just dont have time to repeat myself 7 or 8 time for every newbie that arrives here. Not trying to be rude, but just because I dont have time to play 20 questions with you doesnt mean I cant support my statements. Glad you have time to be on the internet, I dont really have much time. Thats why I am not here much anymore. I realized what a waste of time it is.
It's not all about you, bud.
As for Paul calling calvinist or arminians "carnal", I think perhaps you need to invest in a dictionary. So far you didnt know what Semi-Palageniaism is, and now you apparently dont understand what "carnal" is.
And forget the Calvinist label... it doesnt mean anything. Let's just say that I hold to what Paul clearly taught in Ephesians and Romans, as well as all his other books. I believe in what Jesus taught, and what we see demonstrated all thru the Old Test.
And... that has formed my theology and doctrine. And it just so happens that it coincides with much of what the Reformers taught about predestination and salvation.
I have found that someone who comes here that is fairly new and brings up topics like this and asks question after question after question that seems to be designed to provoke argument instead of personal discovery... is in fact looking to argue.
Many times, and I dont know if this applies to you, people do a quick scan of wikipedia to get answers and then come here and post about councils of this that met on such and such a date... attempting to look like they have had years of study. That is done to intimidate and manipulate the debate. And that shows thru. I do not know you and am not accusing you of that... but even if you have a doctorate in theology... so what?
And I think you targetted me when I commented because I have a reputation for speaking my mind boldly.
Sorry to disappoint you, bro. But best wishes with whatever your agenda is. I trust that your agenda is pure.
Krispy
PS: not that I owe you an explanation, but I had to laugh when you suggested that I should read authors other than ones that I agree with. Up until a couple years ago I was a full fledged anti-Calvinist. I hated everything about it. I actually started studying to prove it wrong. (Anyone who knows me knows thats how I do things... Thats how I approached the Bible version issue) Started with Dave Hunt and Norman Geisler. After over two years of reading everything I could get my hands on I started really digging into the Word and seeking God about all this, because it can be really confusing. I came out the other end believing what the Bible says... God chose His people before the beginning of time. God draws people unto Himself based upon His sovereign preordained will... we do not "find" God. He already found us. PERIOD. (that "PERIOD" was for you Ginny!) |
| 2012/3/2 6:50 | | roadsign Member
Joined: 2005/5/2 Posts: 3777
| Re: | | Quote:
I started really digging into the Word and seeking God about all this,
This may sound strange, but after seeing this topic go by hundreds of times (It just seems like it) I admit, I appreciate seeing how people work through this tough issue. For me, with each trip around the mountain, something new comes to my mind.
Heres whats on my mind: The real challenge for us is in discovering the right questions and abandoning the wrong (fruitless) questions. Heres a better question: What are the implications of salvation? Im convinced Ron Baileys book, The Better Covenant (which is being promoted here) can be a real treasure or rather, show us more clearly to the REAL treasure the broad-scoped gift we have in Christ.
When I first got saved in the Baptist church at 17 yo, I had no idea what it really implied. I had never been a Baptist. I just trusted what I was being taught - that this is how you obey God. And I was eager to obey God. In my prayer, I thanked Jesus for forgiving my sins, although I couldnt think of any sins that needed forgiving. I had been a good person. Furthermore, by getting saved I could join the choir and have a place to belong. Frankly, I would not have endured the rejection of not belonging not being allowed to participate in the churchs life -ex communion, etc. I could not have endured honesty - not yet. For me getting saved as shallow as it was, was important for my wellbeing as an insecure teen. It gave me a positive peer group so vital to teens. It was God's provision.
Of course, my salvation did not hold me up when trials came because I was still self-reliant. But unlike those who eventually fall back to the secular life they always knew, I tried to fall back to the church. (the church was really my savior). But it was a much a straw foundation as the world is. Theres really no difference, is there?
So was I then unsaved? That is not the question to ask. Gods Spirit blows where it wills and we cant see it blowing. Gods Spirit worked in my life over a long course of time, and led me away from my reliance on the church, and more solidly into HIS promises.
A few years ago I confessed my spiritual journey to the missionary lady who had led me to the Lord as a youth. I spoke to her about the possibility of a superficial conversion. She said that my own journey over the years proved that I belonged to him. God took the little I could offer him initially, but he did not abandon me. He led me along all those years.
The point: It is best to trust God for our own calling and his provisions for us. Questioning God's capability to preserve us is not an expression of faith. We must leave peoples final destiny to God, and get on with our own business. We are called to love our neighbor. Redeemed or not in the end, our neighbor is deserving of our expressions of love. That's the debt we owe him.
Diane
_________________ Diane
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| 2012/3/2 7:47 | Profile | Elibeth Member
Joined: 2011/8/14 Posts: 1148
| Re: | | Sorry ,
With draw comment.
Forgive me.
elizabeth |
| 2012/3/2 8:00 | Profile | rnieman Member
Joined: 2008/10/24 Posts: 146
| Re: | | Krispy you wrote "As for Paul calling calvinist or arminians "carnal", I think perhaps you need to invest in a dictionary. So far you didnt know what Semi-Palageniaism is, and now you apparently dont understand what "carnal" is."
When and where did I state that?
Krispy when I stated " Krispy you make statements and do little to actually support them"
I was speaking to this current post, not in regards to every post you have ever made. The reason I questioned you is because you were making statements and didn't support them. And you still have not supported your semi-pelagian comments.
" Let's just say that I hold to what Paul clearly taught in Ephesians and Romans, as well as all his other books. I believe in what Jesus taught, and what we see demonstrated all thru the Old Test."
Me too election is corporate nations in OC, His Church in the NC, Ephesians backs up the Romans emphasizing "in Him, in Christ, etc" and union in Christ, with His church being the object of His predestination.
Brother I was not attacking you, I read your post and questioned it. Thats all, no agenda. All I'm saying is if you make statements like you did, back them up, if you don't have time, don't state them.
I wish the best for you, Russ |
| 2012/3/2 9:23 | Profile |
| Re: | | rnieman... oops, my bad... it was someone else who said "Calvinists and Arminians" are carnal. Sorry about that.
I got up this morning and was totally out of coffee, so please forgive me for getting that wrong! :-)
Krispy |
| 2012/3/2 15:18 | |
| Re: | | "As for Paul calling calvinist or arminians "carnal", I think perhaps you need to invest in a dictionary. So far you didnt know what Semi-Palageniaism is, and now you apparently dont understand what "carnal" is."
Krispy-
No dictionary needed, paul says that seperating the body of Christ by the names of men is carnal.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
-Jim
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| 2012/3/2 18:08 | | jimp Member
Joined: 2005/6/18 Posts: 1481
| Re: | | dear jim, the scripture you are using for carnal is about following a person or a peronnality. what we are talking about is two minsets of understanding the Word. one emphasizes the power of God (calvin)the other the power of man.is God soveriegn?was His blood enough?did He woo you? is He able to keep you?did He love you from before the foundations of the earth?just these simple questions bring tears into my eyes because of His love for me and my mindset is to love and worship Him (normal) not run off and offend Him with sin (abnormal)which makes no sense whatsoever to me.jimp |
| 2012/3/2 18:42 | Profile | brothagary Member
Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | brother russ with all due respect
i think you should not expect kirispy to back up the statments he has made in this thredd,,if you are not willing to back up your own statments ,,example,,,,you made a stament about swaggart with out any references to show or back you up ,,,,,,brother that is a contradiction
bless you |
| 2012/3/2 19:03 | Profile | brothagary Member
Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | yea i think jimp is right
the contex in the verses in corinthians is one of
creating division ,by elavating paul and appolas up the the standared of christ
this is why paul said im glad i baptised no except crispus unless you would have said i baptises in my own name ,cotex ,own athority
i sincerly think , holding to slighty diferent donctrines ,as what is inderstood as the teaching of calvinism ,and the teaching of ariminaism ,,, is not the same in any way , to the situation in the corinthian church ,,,,
we can safe assume ,that paul taught exacly what appolas taught ,, this division ,was not about doctrinal variations , but somthing much worse blessings |
| 2012/3/2 19:11 | Profile |
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